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Originally Posted by Radioactive Poltergeist
I'm not sure what "left-wing propaganda" you are referring to, and I don't understand what is "left-wing" about my position.
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the usual left-wing pap is the knee-jerk assumption that the weak are good and the strong are evil. hence hamas is seen as "good" by virtue of having less power than its enemies.
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Originally Posted by Radioactive Poltergeist
And again, what is with this whole "Hamas is out to destroy Israel". They have stated repeatedly that what they seek is the restoration of the pre 1967 borders which is thoroughly reasonable. This, as usual, is completely ignored.
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well it's stated in their charter that their goal is the destruction of israel, not a return to pre 1967 borders. if you have the sources for what you're saying, please provide, i'd be eager to read that, meanwhile, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Hamas_documents
sorry to use wikipedia but it's really hard to find reliable sources and this is as neutral as i can get.
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Originally Posted by Radioactive Poltergeist
As for the rockets, I don't condone them. I wonder though why you suppose they expect nothing to happen. There are probably numerous reasons for the rockets and I suspect most of them stem from the fact that the Palestinian people are in an utterly desperate situation.
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yeah, but how do the rockets help their desperate situation? how does provoking a much stronger adversary help their people? the only thing this might accomplish is to boost their image as hardasses, but at the expense of their own population.
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Originally Posted by Radioactive Poltergeist
And I still do not buy that this is simply about Hamas. Every Israeli government since Ben Gurion has stated in some way or other that the Palestinian people do not exist, or that they intend to drive the Palestinians out of their land entirely. This is all in print by the way, in Ha'aretz and government archives. Added to this is the fact this this tactic used by Israel drastically pre-dates Hamas. I refer you not to what you refer to as "propaganda", rather I ask you draw facts from reality. What you are doing is trying to theorize the problem into a tidy issue of politics where all Israel is intending to do is change regime, yet by Israel's own admission they intend on grinding the population into the ground. In fact, this policy has been pursued long before 1948, it is very much ingrained in Israel's policy, regardless of whoever is in power.
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I disagree with this completely, especially because it ignores the internal struggles within the body politic of Israel. I call bullshit.
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Originally Posted by Radioactive Poltergeist
I mean, the answer to the problem is blindingly obvious: return illegally occupied land to their rightful owners, and there is a simple enough program to follow, which starts with the removal of all Israeli settlers, and the return to the pre 1967 borders.
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The problem with this argument is two-fold: one, is what different groups define as "illegaly occupied", and I don't know what you mean by it; two, is that the israeli right wing has argued that they need a buffer zone to protect themselves from artillery: they pull out of Gaza and the attacks increase instead of diminishing-- sort of proves their point and encourages a continued occupation of the West Bank-- which I think most people would agree would be a fucking tragedy.