[pbradley]

I wonder which encouraged the apology more; PR and the tourist industry or genuine sympathy. But I guess any little bit helps, yah know?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

since slavery has only been highlighted in an at least partial manner in schools in the last 30 or so years (in the south, specifically), this IS a big step for alabama to apologize. i only hope that it's not a show and dance and that things for people of color in the south start getting a bit better.

are you guys listening? thank you.

[davenotdead]

im kinda riding the fence on this one...i agree partly with both....all i know is 'white' and 'brown/black' are such vague, sweeping generalizations....and that i have no idea what my great-grandfather did to other people in his lifetime...I do know that Fidel Castro took all of my great-grandparents land/plantations in Cuba when he took over...so when he dies, am I going to get an apology from the Cuban government? hell no...do I want one? not really (never even thought about it actually), but it would be pretty sweet to have my rightful land/inheritance...there are so many peoples/races who have been wronged, so many minorities that are 'unsung', that its almost comical to me how the 'large' minorites such as 'african americans' or 'native americans' seemingly get anything and everything they ask for...oh wait, because this is America, the same place they supposedly hate for being the racist trash heap that they call it so often...

[val-holla-ing]

america, en masse, is a racist trash heap. take a ride through a town that's not one of the major areas and you'll understand.

no matter how you cut it, africans were brought here against their will into harsher conditions than you could ever imagine, and native americans had an entire land stolen from them. everyone else, more or less, came here of their own (collective) free will. either way, we're all niggers, spics, chinks, whatever, but this isn't a contest to see whose oppressed dick is bigger, so don't try and make it that. an apology for slavery is the first step towards maybe making it better for everyone.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by davenotdead

im kinda riding the fence on this one...i agree partly with both....all i know is 'white' and 'brown/black' are such vague, sweeping generalizations....and that i have no idea what my great-grandfather did to other people in his lifetime...I do know that Fidel Castro took all of my great-grandparents land/plantations in Cuba when he took over...so when he dies, am I going to get an apology from the Cuban government? hell no...do I want one? not really (never even thought about it actually), but it would be pretty sweet to have my rightful land/inheritance...there are so many peoples/races who have been wronged, so many minorities that are 'unsung', that its almost comical to me how the 'large' minorites such as 'african americans' or 'native americans' seemingly get anything and everything they ask for...oh wait, because this is America, the same place they supposedly hate for being the racist trash heap that they call it so often...

you know, i'm not a communist, but latin american plantation owners don't exactly get my sympathy for their supposed travails. cuba before castro wasn't exactly a worker's paradise. cuba was a relatively rich country with a lot of poor people, and agricultural laborers were particularly miserable. to compare the loss of feudal power to enslavement is just plain ignorant and ridiculous. and if i may freely offend, for your stupid statement about 'native americans' getting "anything they ask for" as you put it, your feudal landlord great-grandparents probably had it coming. off with their fucking heads.

Originally Posted by swa(y)

of course hes listening.

and using someone of a different race to try and support yr argument, is pretty lame.

i dont know much about val, but i know some key points. most of the members of his band (actually, if im not mistaken all other than himself) are what? white. hes obviously not in a severe poverty situation..why? because hes on the freaking internet (1) his band at least has some amount of money...they just did a mini-tour of the south east (2) and freaking 3...hes obviously a pretty well educated guy. he certainly seems bright, probally brigher than myself, and sure as fuck seem to be able to control his emotion much better.

fuck it...you used em to support yr debate, ill play that card too. (keep in mind, im not racist...reall, im not. ive said "nigger", so what, most have)

what so fucking bad? i know that saying "one of the most fucked up situations any man will ever find himself in, is being born black in america". true? not in my opinion. can it hinder things a bit? sure....any more than a white person being bornb into poverty? hell no. maybe a bit/...maybe, depending in what part of the coutry ya live in.

but anyone...ANY FUCKING ONE...can pick up their shit, and move to another part of thr coutry where things are better. anyone can live behind a dumpster, take a bath in the mcdolads sink, work some shit fast food job...and save 350 buck and take the damned grayhoud anywhere they wanna go.

there are some fucked up ideas out there...yeah. i know racist...i klnopw black racist, i know white racist. i dont assocaite with em, but like val, being from the south im well aware that they are around. (lets keep in mind...too...pretty much every country in the fucking world are atleast going to have som racist...its in our nature as human being. naturally some of us have the inability to embrace things that are "different")

shit man...we damn sure didnt make the hispanics our slaves. and "racist" black people seem to hate them MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE than the fucking white peeps. SHIT, the white people are more prone to give the hispanics shit these days. do i agree with it? no! (i do think we need to close the doors to the U.S., but thats a whole other issue and has to do with the people that are already here, nothing at all to do with the people that keep pouring in).

shits fucked up man.....and from my expereince, apologies towards really fucked up situations tend to make things worse.

i cant even counth the times ive been asked, by black people...shit, not even "asked" FUCKING TOLD "hey gimmie fitty cent", and everytime, i say "i aint got it"...even if i really do. the typical response.."ahh bump you then" or something of the like...almost everytime.

i was in a gas station once. me and a friend (that actually happens to occasionally contribute to this message board) were at the counter, paying for some ciggies, whatever. i said something along the lines of "hey man, wanna go to burger king?" and this rude lack dude says "burger king, you white folks got money to be eating at burger king, my dad hit me last night". this dude was obviously a crackhead (there all of that shit town). im sorry, if you cant afford to eat at FUCKING BURGER KING, and ya cant figure out how to make 6 bux for a value meal...im sorry. my parents didnt have any serious money, we werent "poor", but we worked our asses off for anything we ever had. my mom never made over 20 grand a year...never...still hasnt. ive had two cars, ive bought both of em myself..i had too. ive never made over 9 bux an hour, and have never been ashamed to mow some lawns when need be. i did that shit since fucking fifth grade (havent dude it since probally tenth...less it was my own yard...because i was smart enough to take a minimum wage job back then...again...i had to if i wanted anything. that minimum wage job bought my first car).

i dont feel sorry for anyone. not in the fucking united states. maybe blind folks/disabled people. i feel sorry for black people from say, the early 80s back to right before the time of slavery). if yr living in america, and yr pissed about at me about some shit i, swa(y), and nothing to do with, then fuck you. rot in fucking hell.

and as for that dude at burger king...he was in atleast...at fuckin least...in his late 30s. if all he can bitch about is his dad hitting em, and white folks affording to eat at some fast food joint, perhaps i should send em the receipt from the last time i ate at johnny careno's or some shit. hed prolly kill himself.

oh well.


people tryna fix everyone elses fucking problems...fix yr own fucking problems. take care of yrself...then talk shit.

would someone please be kind enough to translate for me? thank you.

[val-holla-ing]

for the record, i didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. my mom sacrificed so that i didn't go without, but since i've been on my own (for about 5 years) i've worked to get what i have. and my band members/coworkers are really the only white people i associate with.

i do understand what you're saying. this isn't the time to blame everything on race anymore, people have to step up and start being accountable. i don't feel bad for crackheads, not even my own father, or homeless people. but but but, it would be foolish to say that a poor black man and a poor white man and a poor hispanic man in america has an equal chance at overcoming most odds. the country has never been at a point where that's been possible. it's getting to that point, but there's still a ways to go.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

for the record, i didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. my mom sacrificed so that i didn't go without, but since i've been on my own (for about 5 years) i've worked to get what i have. and my band members/coworkers are really the only white people i associate with.

i do understand what you're saying. this isn't the time to blame everything on race anymore, people have to step up and start being accountable. i don't feel bad for crackheads, not even my own father, or homeless people. but but but, it would be foolish to say that a poor black man and a poor white man and a poor hispanic man in america has an equal chance at overcoming most odds. the country has never been at a point where that's been possible. it's getting to that point, but there's still a ways to go.

i know of black men who feel compelled to wear a suit when going to the supermarket, so they won't be stalked by the store detectives. true fucking story. i'd like to meet a white guy who needs to do the same.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

alot of black men like wearing suits period.

shit, i can say the same for alotta white men...it heelps get em laid.

you really need to get schooled before you run your mouth man. i mean sure everyone has a right to voice their opinions, but you really know nothing of what you're speaking about, so your opinions come across as just drivel.

well of course you can choose to say anything you want; but truly, could you start reading a little? maybe listen to npr, if you can't stand books? really, i'm not trying to insult you here but you're talking out of your ass. you could try having informed opinions, that would be an improvement.

here, start here.. it's just the internet and it won't be too painful

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...v46/ai_9177130

[val-holla-ing]

i was speaking with an ex-, but still good friend yesterday about her job at a bank. APPARENTLY black men get profiled as drug dealers when they drive nice cars and deposit large amounts of money into their accounts.

and often times i think about what it would be like to be white.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

well thats one of the major differences between guys like you and myself...i do read...i just form my own opinions on what i read. quoting things one reads out of a book and expressing such as "opinoins" doesnt make one intelligent.

val seemed to undersatnd what i said just fine...fine enough to actually respond to what i said (wether he agreed with it or not doesnt matter).

you can...you just attempt insulting. probally because yr too lazy to actually read what i wrote.

yr not that smart dude, im sorry. say what ya will about my ability (or lack of) to spell, but yr level of intelligence is nothing threatening.

you just seem like the type that spends alot of time watching the news and the discovery channel (again, without ever forming a solid personal opinion aboput what you watch).

stop yakking and read that article. the first step to cure ignorance is to admit it. don't be afraid.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

no, ignorance in responding to something someone says with something completely unrelated....least in yr case.

i like ya man, if ya cant converse quit talking to me please.

just read that article and tell us what you think.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i can understand that, way more than a black man wearing a suit so he wont be profiled.

its pretty much a fact, least down here....alot of black people, esp. the poor ones, are very concerned with their self image. ANYONE coming from a background where they dont have much would feel pretty nice riding around in a caddi (even if their house is shit)...least they look good pullin up in the mall parking lot. even eddie murphy said something about it in his sketch "we all live in the yello coupe deville".

its sad...but its true. i see it everyday. it happens with white people too, but there arent quite as many poor white folks in the area.

it's a fact with anyone. style over substance is more american than the american dream, and it's definitely over-compensated for when there's a person who never had, but now has. not a black or white or yellow or red thing, it's more of an economic/class thing.

[!@#$%!]

well you said "black men like suits" when i was trying to point out how racism works on an everyday level, forcing people to put on a suit so they won't be taken for criminals. i hope that article clarifies what i was talking about, even though it doesn't mention it directly, you can put 2 and 2 together.

Originally Posted by SynthethicalY

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...avery-apology/


MONTGOMERY, Ala. — Gov. Bob Riley signed a resolution Thursday expressing "profound regret" for Alabama's role in slavery and apologizing for slavery's wrongs and lingering effects.

"Slavery was evil and is a part of American history," the Republican governor said. "I believe all Alabamians are proud of the tremendous progress we have made and continue to make."

Alabama is the fourth Southern state to pass a slavery apology, following votes by the legislatures in Maryland, Virginia and North Carolina. Alabama's Democrat-controlled Legislature approved the resolution last week.

The signing occurred in the state Capitol, which also served as the first capitol of the Confederacy in 1861. The Capitol was also the end of the Selma-to-Montgomery voting rights march that led to passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

The resolution describes "centuries of brutal dehumanization and injustices" and says "the vestiges of slavery are ever before African-American citizens."

It also says the House and Senate "express our profound regret for the State of Alabama's role in slavery and that we apologize for the wrongs inflicted by slavery and its after effects in the United States of America."

Riley said he said he signed the resolution partly because it offered an opportunity to present a new image for his state.

"Alabama's a different state today and we should be proud of it," Riley said.

When the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. led the voting rights march in 1965, Alabama's Legislature was all white. Now it is one-fourth black.

"This proves Alabama is open for everyone and we are ready to improve race relations," said state Rep. Mary Moore, a Birmingham Democrat who sponsored the resolution. "The issue of slavery and its impact on the country had been kept in the closet until a few Southern states said, 'We want to take it out of the closet.'"

Aw, bless! No problem, but please, next time be more gentle on us.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

dude, its like any other thing...just depends on what angle yr looking at it from.

im not stupid, val is right, black men are more prone to be "profiled" if they are dressed a little tooooo nice.

wear what ya want, i personally dont care. i get shit all the time for what i wear "his pants are tight, is he gay?", "whats that symbol on his shirt, does he worship satan?"...i dont get that shit so much now as i did in high school, but it happens man. never felt the need to "change clothes" either. i am who i am. stupid, smart, white, black, doesnt fucking matter.

i think its a demographic thing man...me and val are from the same region of the US. even though we dont agree on everything (probally dont agree on most things) we understand the situation here...even if (and we obviously do) view the situation differenty.

i used to live in washington dc, which is right on the edge of the south and has a majority black population, a solid black middle class, and a significant number of rich black people. and blacks, as the article says, are denied the public trust.

my point wasn't about style or clothes-- it was about the denial of public trust. about being suspect by default. presumed guilty. this is a force you don't have to contend against. you really don't, and you really don't know, but then you try to discount it as if you did-- but it can't be discounted you see.

Truth is that black (and not just them) people are not simply not seen as equal in this society as they should be, as fellow equal human beings. Don't even try and possibly make useless arguments out of it, or else, sway, you'll feel my mighty powers in making you feel like an idiot.

Good. Let this shit die, it makes my blood boil.

[davenotdead]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you know, i'm not a communist, but latin american plantation owners don't exactly get my sympathy for their supposed travails. cuba before castro wasn't exactly a worker's paradise. cuba was a relatively rich country with a lot of poor people, and agricultural laborers were particularly miserable. to compare the loss of feudal power to enslavement is just plain ignorant and ridiculous. and if i may freely offend, for your stupid statement about 'native americans' getting "anything they ask for" as you put it, your feudal landlord great-grandparents probably had it coming. off with their fucking heads.

well, so much for fact-checking...and so much for keeping it civil. I would like to call you something, but your reply speaks for itself...you just assumed a lot about me...perhaps i generalized a bit, i apologize...'loss of feudal power' is relevant how?...not in my case...i have no cuban nor southern American blood in me...my great-grandparents were somewhat wealthy, and had a vacation-type home in cuba, and had to escape for their lives from a tyrant...they lost everything...lost the freedom to live in a land they love, and were pushed out and had their whole lives' worth taken from them [they escaped, if they had stayed, they most likely would have been slaves or executed (as you so elegantly put it]
...how is that not similar to slavery? loss of freedom, thats what it boils down to for people today, right? ( my ancestors were not forced to submissive work, and some black people's were, how the hell does that affect us now?) I see the difference, but the similarity is obvious...

The point is: apologizing for breaking your great great grandfather's back is kinda moot? is it not? I dont think its changing anyone's opinions today...There is something much larger that needs to happen...the loss of ignorance, maybe? I dont know if that can be taught in a history lesson, people are not very smart...Forgiving and Forgetting. Bingo. Right there. Perhaps these apologies are a good thing after all. But if the govt. is doing its part, then African Americans must also do theirs...What comes after an apology? Forgiveness or a more blame?

[davenotdead]

damn, sway and i agreeing on something again....btw, im a first-generation southerner too, so i too have seen what sway is talking about...