[Rob Instigator]

sounds great. prairie lights. I have heard of them from kurt vonnegut actually

[gmku]

Yeah, it's been well-known among the literati for years. It has a strong Iowa Writers Workshop connection, of course.

Which is another great thing. They often sponsor readings by workshop students, so you often see/hear early many of these people who years later become literary stars.

[LittlePuppetBoy]

I have to admit that since moving to Montreal (just this September) I've realized I took quite a few things for granted in my hometown (open spaces, not as much people, the size of the town....)

[Rob Instigator]

if one loves a small town, or a suburban atmosphere and grows up in that or has lived in it for a long time, anything that is a marked difference will be very strange.

I moved to austin for a year back about 8-9 years ago, from Houston TX, and I felt like I had been transplanted to a fucking hick backwater. Now, Austin is a medium sized city, with some very nice things going fro it, but compared to Houston, with it's over 6 thousand restaurants from over 200 different nations, with it's 3 art museums, and myriad art galleries, with it's theatres and it's symphony and opera and ballet and it's pro sports teams and the affordable housing of all types....well, austin couldn;t compare.

however,. if you are coming from a small town like Brenham or Alvin Texas or a smaller city like Amarillo or Lubbock, then Austin can seem to be a wonderland.

I fucking hated it.

[Rob Instigator]

However, my g/f and I are considering moving from Houston to vancouver, do they still call it "Vansterdam?"

[o o o]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

how does it generally feel going from france to living in germany?

man i love france & detest germany. or is it germans? anyway, berlin is supposed to be great, but still... it's germans!

ha ha ha. o man. i do sound like a prejudiced prick but my experience is not good.

Erm… I might not be the best person to ask, because I'm actually half german (german mother)...

So I definitely grew up in France, but Germany might not be as exotic for me as for the average Frenchman (also i grew up in the north east of france, so i guess it's a different perspective than someone from say Marseille or Toulouse... or Bordeaux, around which most of my (french) family is actually based...)

In any case, Berlin is great… If there is a german city that could "convert" you, it might be that one. I met many French people who had a strong negative prejudice against Germany and living in that country (they would never imagine living there one day), but fell in love with the city and don’t want to leave…

In fact, I have a french colleague/friend who regularly rants - ok, half-jokingly - about how the best place to live is the South of France, Spain or Italy (he sometimes extends it the Mediterranea in general) and how the good life is to be found in southern Europe ("good life" ecompassing here apparently various things such as food, wine, people, weather, women, style, overall beauty, landscapes... well, quality of life) as opposed to northern Europe which is only populated by barbarians who have no savoir-vivre and do not know how to appreciate the good things in life, and live in cold and boring cities... and well, he still loves it in Berlin (like me, he has been living here for the last 2 years). Probably because in reality he met a lot of cool people here far from the uptight/stiff German cliche, he actually really likes the Berlin girls and come on, you can still find some very decent food here if you are not into Currywurst or Bouletten... like some non-german food, for example. There is still the problem of the weather, which might not suit everyone's tastes (but the summer in Berlin is usually really great). Also, Berlin is ugly, I must say. If you come here looking for something like Paris, you will be disappointed (a classic disappointment of french people visiting for the first time the city). But not everything is ugly, of course, there are some nice little parts of the city that have apparently not been totally destroyed during the war, some very nice modern achitecture here and there too, and erm, if you are into Stalinist architecture, well the Karl-Marx-Allee is something for you... In fact, the utterly ugly parts can have their charm too, somehow.

Now the rest of Germany is a bit different… Well, I think it's more German, if that makes any sense. One could say that Berlin is perhaps the least German German city (again, if that makes any sense). And not only because it's quite international (that depends which district you go to, actually).

I have never been attracted to living in Germany in general, but it's been some years since I was attracted by living in Berlin, probably because of a romanticized image of Berlin I had in my head (music/art played a role in creating that image). And the city has not disappointed me.

The only other place I've lived in Germany apart from Berlin is Munich for one year (also a bad example, because Munich is not representative of Germany, since it is in Bavarialand) and while had a nice time there and it is a really nice city in many aspects, i would not want to return and live there again… while I really see myself spending a long time in Berlin. (I think I've actually explained all of this on this board before...)

Hamburg is a place I would like to try. My mother is from Hamburg, but I haven't been there for something like 10 years. I think it's potentially a good place to live (altough I don't think it can top Berlin!).

OK, how is that for a concise reply? Should I go on?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by o o o

Erm… I might not be the best person to ask, because I'm actually half german (german mother)...

So I definitely grew up in France, but Germany might not be as exotic for me as for the average Frenchman (also i grew up in the north east of france, so i guess it's a different perspective than someone from say Marseille or Toulouse... or Bordeaux, around which most of my (french) family is actually based...)

In any case, Berlin is great… If there is a german city that could "convert" you, it might be that one. I met many French people who had a strong negative prejudice against Germany and living in that country (they would never imagine living there one day), but fell in love with the city and don’t want to leave…

In fact, I have a french colleague/friend who regularly rants - ok, half-jokingly - about how the best place to live is the South of France, Spain or Italy (he sometimes extends it the Mediterranea in general) and how the good life is to be found in southern Europe ("good life" ecompassing here apparently various things such as food, wine, people, weather, women, style, overall beauty, landscapes... well, quality of life) as opposed to northern Europe which is only populated by barbarians who have no savoir-vivre and do not know how to appreciate the good things in life, and live in cold and boring cities... and well, he still loves it in Berlin (like me, he has been living here for the last 2 years). Probably because in reality he met a lot of cool people here far from the uptight/stiff German cliche, he actually really likes the Berlin girls and come on, you can still find some very decent food here if you are not into Currywurst or Bouletten... like some non-german food, for example. There is still the problem of the weather, which might not suit everyone's tastes (but the summer in Berlin is usually really great). Also, Berlin is ugly, I must say. If you come here looking for something like Paris, you will be disappointed (a classic disappointment of french people visiting for the first time the city). But not everything is ugly, of course, there are some nice little parts of the city that have apparently not been totally destroyed during the war, some very nice modern achitecture here and there too, and erm, if you are into Stalinist architecture, well the Karl-Marx-Allee is something for you... In fact, the utterly ugly parts can have their charm too, somehow.

Now the rest of Germany is a bit different… Well, I think it's more German, if that makes any sense. One could say that Berlin is perhaps the least German German city (again, if that makes any sense). And not only because it's quite international (that depends which district you go to, actually).

I have never been attracted to living in Germany in general, but it's been some years since I was attracted by living in Berlin, probably because of a romanticized image of Berlin I had in my head (music/art played a role in creating that image). And the city has not disappointed me.

The only other place I've lived in Germany apart from Berlin is Munich for one year (also a bad example, because Munich is not representative of Germany, since it is in Bavarialand) and while had a nice time there and it is a really nice city in many aspects, i would not want to return and live there again… while I really see myself spending a long time in Berlin. (I think I've actually explained all of this on this board before...)

Hamburg is a place I would like to try. My mother is from Hamburg, but I haven't been there for something like 10 years. I think it's potentially a good place to live (altough I don't think it can top Berlin!).

OK, how is that for a concise reply? Should I go on?

ha ha ha that's a great reply, thank you.

well, rhethorical posturing aside, i once had a thing with a very lovely girl from Ko:ln. she was an amazing person and a joy to be around.

it's the 6 hours spent in the frankfurt airport (and the flight on lufthansa next to a woman who told me how unfairly germany had been bombarded in ww2) that turned me off to ever visiting there.

it's not the stiffness exactly, it's what i perceive as rudeness and yelling-- i can yell like the best, but really, living constantly like that...

but you've kinda convinced me, i'll pencil in berlin in my list of "places to visit" again. and maybe also Ko:ln ha ha ha.

--

but to compare; i've only spent a week or so in paris and when i left i was broken hearted. i am serious. if i ever make a load of money i'm moving to france the next day.

[girlgun]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

PS: I've moved so many times in my life I've never had a chance to grow too attached to any one place.

pfft. you're so an okie now.

[✌➬]

You guys are making me nervous in moving to San Francisco. It will be a bigger city than the Valley. I hardly leave my suburbian area, it will be an experience.

[o o o]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ha ha ha that's a great reply, thank you.

well, rhethorical posturing aside, i once had a thing with a very lovely girl from Ko:ln. she was an amazing person and a joy to be around.

it's the 6 hours spent in the frankfurt airport (and the flight on lufthansa next to a woman who told me how unfairly germany had been bombarded in ww2) that turned me off to ever visiting there.

it's not the stiffness exactly, it's what i perceive as rudeness and yelling-- i can yell like the best, but really, living constantly like that...

but you've kinda convinced me, i'll pencil in berlin in my list of "places to visit" again. and maybe also Ko:ln ha ha ha.

--

but to compare; i've only spent a week or so in paris and when i left i was broken hearted. i am serious. if i ever make a load of money i'm moving to france the next day.

i guess it's different for me, because i've already lived in Paris for one year, I have a lot of friends there and it's not so far away... i feel like i can go back anytime in want... so no particular nostalgy for me at the moment.