[notyourfiend]

Was anybody else at GR!DC show yesterday at 9:30 club?

Has anybody been to another girl's rock camp production? Or been a part of the camp itself?

I got such a kick out of the show. Some of the girls were so adorable! I really wish there had been a similar camp back when i was a young girl. I remember wanted my parents to send me to Portland so that I could participate.

[infinitemusic]

I don't like the idea. It really takes rock from something crazy and uninhibited to yet another feel-good thing.

[kierkegaarden]

do they have a class on how to take myspace pics?

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by infinitemusic

I don't like the idea. It really takes rock from something crazy and uninhibited to yet another feel-good thing.

It's teaching girls that it's okay to be crazy and uninhibited.

Plus, Girls Rock is about a lot more than rock and roll. Girls can play whatever they want. It's about allowing them to hear their own voices for once.

[infinitemusic]

I just don't think there should be a "school" about that. They should learn it from their friends or on their own. It's basically leading down the road where rock is like jazz in schools and only band geeks like it. And I don't like that thought at all (and this is coming from someone with at least a moderate appreciation for jazz).

I think more girls should be into rock. Real rock, this seems to me that it will lead to shit like Paramore, not good stuff. Because if they don't already know it and don't learn it from the real world, how is a school going to really teach them how to be themselves? I think more girls should play the guitar or other intstruments in general that aren't traditional for girls, but I don't think this is the right way to do it, like sway said, basically.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by infinitemusic

I just don't think there should be a "school" about that. They should learn it from their friends or on their own. It's basically leading down the road where rock is like jazz in schools and only band geeks like it. And I don't like that thought at all (and this is coming from someone with at least a moderate appreciation for jazz).

I think more girls should be into rock. Real rock, this seems to me that it will lead to shit like Paramore, not good stuff. Because if they don't already know it and don't learn it from the real world, how is a school going to really teach them how to be themselves? I think more girls should play the guitar or other instruments in general that aren't traditional for girls, but I don't think this is the right way to do it, like sway said, basically.

A point of the whole thing though is that most girls feel too discouraged to pick up guitars because rock music continues to be a sausage fest. 99% of female rock icons seen by girls are beauty queens. Girls often loose the motivation to get themselves out there because they are told that they are worthless. I'm not just speaking for myself, I'm speaking for tons and tons of women I have spoken to in the past few years.

Girls Rock necessarily won't teach girls how to play their instruments well. But the product is not the point. The camp lets girls realize that they too can play music and that it can be fun. It's also a place where girls learn to work together (rather than compete) with other girls.

Another thing to remember is that a lot of the girls that these rock camps cater towards would not otherwise have the means to access instruments, form bands etc. Girls Rock camps make efforts to cater towards a diverse demographic.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

girls rock camp is the tackiest load of shit ever.

sorry if that offends anyone.

but seriously, its bullshit. the whole concept...theres nothing "rock 'n' roll" about it....

How is it not "rock n roll?"

Isn't a part of rock n roll about self-expression? And isn't it supposed to be the music by and for the people?

Plus rock in this context is about much more than a genre - it's about being empowered, feeling confident, getting ready to take on the world etc.

[kierkegaarden]

Originally Posted by notyourfiend

A point of the whole thing though is that most girls feel too discouraged to pick up guitars because rock music continues to be a sausage fest. 99% of female rock icons seen by girls are beauty queens. Girls often loose the motivation to get themselves out there because they are told that they are worthless. I'm not just speaking for myself, I'm speaking for tons and tons of women I have spoken to in the past few years.

Girls Rock necessarily won't teach girls how to play their instruments well. But the product is not the point. The camp lets girls realize that they too can play music and that it can be fun. It's also a place where girls learn to work together (rather than compete) with other girls.

Another thing to remember is that a lot of the girls that these rock camps cater towards would not otherwise have the means to access instruments, form bands etc. Girls Rock camps make efforts to cater towards a diverse demographic.

Nothing discourages anyone of either gender from looking into music further than the radio and Pitchfork. From Wanda Jackson to Lydia Lunch, women have always played an integral part of rock music, and if it's a sausagefest you see, then you're looking where you're told, how you're told.

[alteredcourse]

Yeah! these little girls are totally fucking up rocknroll! It's totally wrong! DESTROY THE SMALL GIRLS.

Perhaps the type of girls that would be going to something like this, are some that dont have a whole lot of guidance otherwise.
Maybe it can just be seen as some kind of starting point. Do you remember what it's like to be a complete beginner? A total fucking noob? To have everything ahead of you to learn? Doing things all wrong? Maybe this type of beginning is wrong in your eyes. But it takes all kinds of ways for people to figure out their way.

[alteredcourse]

i for one just believe if someone really has something to say, and they want to express that, it comes from THEM and THEM alone. its not something that can be taught.

I agree entirely in that their thoughts and feelings are those that belong to them and cannot be taught. But sometimes, especially when growing up in a world full of distractions and diversions, that some road blocks on the way to being able to express it can get in the way. I mentioned guidance, earlier. Some girls benefit from having someone guide them into gaining the courage to own their feelings, to learn how to access and express them. The figures you mentioned are exceptions. They are a handful among millions of girls in the world. And maybe you know some girls personally who were able to figure it out in the ways that you find ideal. But what about the rest? What of the feelings of the girls who dont turn out the way you like? Are they invalid?

[alteredcourse]

sorry i just dont have that weird "sonic youth are awesome because there is a girl in the band" kind of mentality.

What?

[alteredcourse]

I feel like we're discussing the differences between what you think is happening at these camps, and what your ideal is. I have no idea what the attitude and vibe is like at these camps, so I cant really go further. But my perception is that you put a lot of assumptions and emphasis on the formula and outside aspect of these camps, like girl + camp = no good, no matter what is inside the girl, despite the action of going to the camp. Like if you saw this band and were completely blown away, and you talked to one of the girls in it later, totally dug her, but learned that she'd once went to a music camp that you'd just spin on your heel and leave her in a cloud of whatever brand of smokes you share with iggy.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by notyourfiend

How is it not "rock n roll?"

Isn't a part of rock n roll about self-expression? And isn't it supposed to be the music by and for the people?

Plus rock in this context is about much more than a genre - it's about being empowered, feeling confident, getting ready to take on the world etc.

yeah which doesn't mean going into a fucking cookie cutter camp or taking guitar lessons.


do it yourself or get back in the kitchen.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

spit just fell outta my mouth.

YOU are my idea of feminist. YOU kick ass. and, YOU just got repped.

<3


i mean really though. what the fuck does the fact that i have tits and a vagina have to do with my ability to kick the shit out of you on the guitar (and drums, and bass)?????????


oh yeah.

NOTHING.

this is 2009. get real.

[Satan]

i probably don't actually, i was just making a point

[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by notyourfiend

Girls Rock necessarily won't teach girls how to play their instruments well. But the product is not the point. The camp lets girls realize that they too can play music and that it can be fun. It's also a place where girls learn to work together (rather than compete) with other girls.

Another thing to remember is that a lot of the girls that these rock camps cater towards would not otherwise have the means to access instruments, form bands etc. Girls Rock camps make efforts to cater towards a diverse demographic.

Well I think those things are cool, especially the second one. I think it's cool, but there are other connotations that I don't like... but maybe I'm just being weird.

[alteredcourse]

Fuck, of course it has nothing to do with being a girl or a boy. I was more thrown off by the idea that you've got these rules that you have that makes up someone truly into music. People can use whatever tools and experiences they want, to express themselves.

[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by kierkegaarden

Nothing discourages anyone of either gender from looking into music further than the radio and Pitchfork. From Wanda Jackson to Lydia Lunch, women have always played an integral part of rock music, and if it's a sausagefest you see, then you're looking where you're told, how you're told.

That's a good point. Part of me thinks that if the girl wants to be in it, she'll be in it no matter what. If she doesn't have enough passion to do it even if people don't expect her to, her music is probably not gonna be to passionate. You can see this problem with all the guys who do it to get laid or so get famous. On the other hand, I think it's great that they help low income kids get an instrument. I had a semi friend once who wanted to play violin but she couldn't afford it, so as soon as she left school (because her school provided one, which was great) she couldn't play it anymore.

[Satan]

......it's like a fucking cult or something


^^ sway this reminds me.

how i learned how to play guitar?
i was 11 years old and i picked up my dad's guitar.
i played on only the two top strings with my THUMB for 3 weeks before i ever learned a chord.

all my myself.




you have no excuses to be in favor of some bullshit cult camp now.

[chrome noise tape]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

my idea of expressing myself has never been learning how to do so from others. i can be "inspired", but not "taught".

i believe that. i can be "inspired", but not "taught"