[Florya]

A friend and I are having a discussion.

My argument is that there has been no actual innovation in musical ideas since 1989, just recycling and hybridisation of what went before.

He is adamant that there must have been at least one completely new kind of music in the ensuing 18 years but he can't actually think of any.

Can you help him out and prove me wrong. Please.

[This Is Not Here]

 

[This Is Not Here]

*18 years

[This Is Not Here]

 

[Florya]

OK. I should have said 'in the ensuing 18 years' and I've edited my post. But even so - My Bloody Valentine!? Innovative? I think not.

Are you trying to tell me that no-one was writing intelligent electronica before Boards of Canada? Or that Boards of Canada didn't exist until after 1990?

[demonrail666]

I don't know what happened in 1989 for you to say that was the last time something completely new occured within music, but it seems as arbitrary as any date. As for something that was musically fresh since then. Maybe Hardcore (rave not punk) although that borrowed from earlier house/techno - itself derivative of Disco, Hip Hop, Funk, etc. I don't think any music has been produced which was truly unique and not traceable, at least in part, to some earlier development.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I don't know what happened in 1989 for you to say that was the last time something completely new occured within music, but it seems as arbitrary as any date. As for something that was musically fresh since then. Maybe Hardcore (rave not punk) although that borrowed from earlier house/techno, which is itself derivative of Disco, Hip Hop, Funk, etc. I don't think any music has been produced which truly stands unique and not tied, at least in part, to some earlier development.

What I'm saying is that up to the end of the eighties there seemed to be new types of music being discovered/developed all the time, but since then there has been nothing new. Everything nowadays seems to have it's roots in something that happened before 1990.
I take your point about all music being in some way derivative, but can you really tell me that you have heard music that sounds like nothing you've heard before in the last 18 years?

[This Is Not Here]

You've picked 1989 because you're on a Sonic Youth board and imply Daydream Nation is not musically innovative you'd be sent down the river by some of the more militant SY fans here. It is JUST AS argueable that there has been no musical innovation since 1960, but it doesn't stop it being JUST AS completely blinkered and dismissive, if you see what I mean.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by Florya

What I'm saying is that up to the end of the eighties there seemed to be new types of music being discovered/developed all the time, but since then there has been nothing new. Everything nowadays seems to have it's roots in something that happened before 1990.
I take your point about all music being in some way derivative, but can you really tell me that you have heard music that sounds like nothing you've heard before in the last 18 years?

Soulja Boy

[ZEROpumpkins]

Originally Posted by Florya

OK. I should have said 'in the ensuing 18 years' and I've edited my post. But even so - My Bloody Valentine!? Innovative? I think not.

Are you trying to tell me that no-one was writing intelligent electronica before Boards of Canada? Or that Boards of Canada didn't exist until after 1990?

Wrrrroooong
BoC were one of the first IDM acts, formed in 1987 if I remember right.
Also, a challenger(s) appears!

 

[SYRFox]

that said, I think there's been a lot of musical innovations since 1990. maybe not completely new styles, but electric and electronic instruments are now a lot more melted than before which implies a new vision of music, new sounds, new possibilities. and innovations

[This Is Not Here]

^I know what I mean, honest! ^

And yes Boards of Canada had early roots in the 80s, but recorded music is the only true means by which we can measure musical innovation of the past ( for example, you could quite rightly say the members of Pink Floyd were making music in the 1950s, but that doesn't make it a legitimate arguement for musical innovation becuase it was not recorded) , and this their most innovative record, after 1990, and it sounds like nothing else.

[This Is Not Here]

Originally Posted by ZEROpumpkins

 

Who?

[stu666]

Autechre

[SYRFox]

Autechre >= Boards Of Canada tbh

[This Is Not Here]

Also, please don't rely too much on genre names in your arguement, most genres are extremely broad -for example, Cans Tago Mago (71) was a 'progressive-rock' record, as was Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets record two or three years before, but this does not devalue Tago Mago's innovation, they sound totally different firstly, and the latter record of the same genre was just as if not more innovative.

So my point is it doesn't matter if there were IDM acts before BOC, or even shoegaze acts before MBV, their sound is totally ORIGINAL and innovative, find me an earlier record in either case that sounds similar and I'll eat my hat.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

Also, please don't rely too much on genre names in your arguement, most genres are extremely broad -for example, Cans Tago Mago (71) was a 'progressive-rock' record, as was Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets record two or three years before, but this does not devalue Tago Mago's innovation, they sound totally different firstly, and the latter record of the same genre was just as if not more innovative.

So my point is it doesn't matter if there were IDM acts before BOC, or even shoegaze acts before MBV, their sound is totally ORIGINAL and innovative, find me an earlier record in either case that sounds similar and I'll eat my hat.

well put

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

So my point is it doesn't matter if there were IDM acts before BOC, or even shoegaze acts before MBV, their sound is totally ORIGINAL and innovative, find me an earlier record in either case that sounds similar and I'll eat my hat.

BoC sound similar to The Orb, Little Fluffy Clouds if you ask me.

[✌➬]

All music is borrowed from something. There will always be new innovations, the only reason you are not hearing it is because shitty bands outweigh the good ones.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

Also, please don't rely too much on genre names in your arguement, most genres are extremely broad -for example, Cans Tago Mago (71) was a 'progressive-rock' record, as was Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets record two or three years before, but this does not devalue Tago Mago's innovation, they sound totally different firstly, and the latter record of the same genre was just as if not more innovative.

So my point is it doesn't matter if there were IDM acts before BOC, or even shoegaze acts before MBV, their sound is totally ORIGINAL and innovative, find me an earlier record in either case that sounds similar and I'll eat my hat.

That's my whole point. Even if they sound 'original' and 'innovative', their music is influenced by what came before it.

I'm not sure what the fixation with MBV is all about. Everything they released or wrote, up to and including 'Loveless' was done in the eighties. So they're not a very good example to use. (Yes I know Loveless was released in 1991, but it's release had been delayed by 2 years)

BoC, and 'Geogaddi' in particular sounds very similar to the early Orb and KLF stuff that Alex Patterson and Jimmy Cauty were doing in the late Eighties. Looped beats, atmospheric electronics and quirky samples. Great album.
But a totally new type of music?

Same with Daydream Nation - Sure it's a change of style from what SY were doing previously, and I think that the album defines the genre. But totally new and original?

What I'm talking about is music, that when you heard it for the first time sounded nothing like anything you'd heard before.

A few examples:

Cabaret Voltaire
Einstuerzende Neubauten
Laibach
Bauhaus
The Orb
Sonic Youth
Swans
Suicide
Throbbing Gristle
Kraftwerk
Joy Division
Lustmord

There are a lot of bands emulating the music of the above, some have even come up with hybrids. But who has come up with anything like as groundbreaking as the music produced by these artists in the last 18 - 20 years?

Maybe it's because I'm an old fogie and I've become jaded over the years, but everything I listen to nowadays just sounds so derivative.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but none of the artists suggested so far have done anything to change my mind.