[Rob Instigator]

I took this from another thread

I have always had this theory.

HUmans perception of the flow of time can be altered by many many things, frfrom personal body chemistry to drugs to meditation etc.

when one is happy and enjoying something time flies, and when one is suffering or bored time trickles.

well, I think that all of mystical teaching and religious teaching and wisdom is always guided to having the individual lead a good life so that they feel certain that they will go to a "heaven" f some sort, or achieve nirvana or enlightenment etc.
opposite of that is the instruction and indoctrination that if life is led badly, and without shame or forgiveness or redemption, then you will either go to a "hell" or just be forbiden from the grace of god or enlightenment or nirvana, whatever the individual teaching is does not matter.

Having said this, the statements "on earth as it is in heaven" makes sense. The afterlife is what you believe it will be, but not because it is real and actual, but because as you die, as your life is extinguished, time dilates in an exponentially increasing manner, so the last thought of a human as they pass is extended infninitely.

a person who believes in heaven and honestly feels they have led a good life can die without fear, without doubts weighing on their conscience. This "bliss" is experienced exponentially as everlasting grace, or oneness with god/universe, or entering heaven, or achieving nirvana.

If one believs, as the Hebrew fatih does, that after death comes an eternal dreamles slumber, then as one dies,one expects to do this and the death becomes an infnite falling into sleep, which for most people is quite pleasant, if not ecstatic.

If one believes that they have not achieved redemption, or if they know that they ave led a wicked life, with miore bad than good, and are weighed by guilt and such feelings, negative feelings, or anger, etc., then the last seconds of life are an exponetial infinity of that emotion, thereby feeling like eternal "hell" or eternal damnation or eternal separation from the grace of a god or gods.

this would probably apply to death by disease, or in old age, or by accident as in "life flashing before your eyes" as well, and if that life is joyous, with minimal harm aimed at anyone with maximum good directed at the world and at people then....


i don;t know how else to put it. I have thought about it a lot. i think i will write it all down.

[SYRFox]

Guy, you seem to be thinking a lot about death.

As for myself... I don't know. I just can't imagine what's going on after death. Your theory seem interesting. Personnally, I can't imagine that after you die there's that complete void, it makes the same effect on me as thinking to what there was before the Big Bang or what there is at the end of the universe (the universe is infinite, sure, but there must be an end still! I can't imagine it's infinite, but if it's not infinite I can't imagine what there's after it, etc), I can't imagine something totally void. Too hard for me, I think

[pbradley]

Kind of like a program freezing? Hitting an infinite and staling. I can see that.

Though I don't see the difference between that and just nothingness as thinking makes us human (thanks Decartes) so infinity of just one thought is really just error. Nothing progresses nothing regresses. What's the difference infinity and nothingness?

But again thought independent of body? I don't understand that as it would have to be time independent of time. Death is unknowable so I don't see why it should be answered.

[girlgun]

very interesting thoughts, but what about those that have fear when they die? not because they've lead a wicked life, but just because they're afraid as they feel life slipping away. does that mean their final thoughts commit them to everlasting fear? that would nearly constitute as hell.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by girlgun

very interesting thoughts, but what about those that have fear when they die? not because they've lead a wicked life, but just because they're afraid as they feel life slipping away. does that mean their final thoughts commit them to everlasting fear? that would nearly constitute as hell.

That it would. as the mystics and priests say, one has to be ready at all times to face their "creator" and that includes facing the fear as you die. that is why such pre-death rituals as the Catholic Last Rites are so important, to help those about to die with calming their thoughts and accepting their "fate"

someone who believes in their faith would not be so afraid as someone who half-assedly believes in their faith, you know?

it is all strange. I have thought about this over the last 20 years or so.

[girlgun]

i do believe there is probably some sort of endorphin rush (or such) that would make dying feel more or less pleasant/good. but anything you've never experienced before does cause some anxiety. i think even someone with the greatest faith wouldn't necessarily always find peace.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Having said this, the statements "on earth as it is in heaven" makes sense. The afterlife is what you believe it will be, but not because it is real and actual, but because as you die, as your life is extinguished, time dilates in an exponentially increasing manner, so the last thought of a human as they pass is extended infninitely.


.

but, my friend, we are continually trapped in the past. our perception of life is trapped in memory, we live a split second behind reality for ever. we only know what we remember, we have no actual perception of the present, as we must process and feel it, interpret it which takes an amount of time and traps us to live perpetually in the past, in our memories. so if this is true, your conclusion, then it is not that human beings are experiencing life at death until the last moment, we dont experience anything to the last second, we are always a microsecond behind... so such an experience would in fact either have to not be possible, or would be in fact glimpsing at an afterlife, feeling the split second of death, a microsecond after the fact...

[pbradley]

The only people that should fear death are those left behind. They're the one's that are losing anything.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

The only people that should fear death are those left behind. They're the one's that are losing anything.

the meso-american cosmology states that a person's death (ie, type, time, place of etc) is determined by their own and the people around them's attachment to their life. young people die in violent, bloody accidents and things because both they and the people who know them, or even just those strangers who come across the body and know that young folks are supposed to live and not die are therefore attached to the person's life even though they do not know them, are too attached to the concept of life, whereas old folks die peacefully in their sleep because both the old folks and ourselves have become comfortable and accepting of their inevitable deaths...

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

but, my friend, we are continually trapped in the past. our perception of life is trapped in memory, we live a split second behind reality for ever. we only know what we remember, we have no actual perception of the present, as we must process and feel it, interpret it which takes an amount of time and traps us to live perpetually in the past, in our memories. so if this is true, your conclusion, then it is not that human beings are experiencing life at death until the last moment, we dont experience anything to the last second, we are always a microsecond behind... so such an experience would in fact either have to not be possible, or would be in fact glimpsing at an afterlife, feeling the split second of death, a microsecond after the fact...

that would fit EXACTLY with my theory, that those last moments of life are exponentially dragged out, "smeared" in a sense, and that instead of experienceing death, what we experience is the inexorable descent into death, never experienceing the present moment of death but instead the eternal and infnite moments leading up to it.

[Rob Instigator]

and we are not all trapped in the past. the whole point of mystic teaching is to rid oneself opf those obsessions with the past and to experience the present moment.

when you or anyone is having a wonderful time, at a sonic youth concert for instance,mwhne they just kicked into Inhuman, you are living in the moment, not analyzing what just hapened, but instead epxriencing everything at the speed of our neurons, which is just short of light speed, almost infi nitessimally instantaneous.

the present is all that matters and is all that is real. the past is all gossamer and memory, clouded almost instantly, and sadly most people do live wandering the hallways of their past experience, instead opf appreciating and enjoying the rpesent, the ever ocurring, ever renewing present.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

and we are not all trapped in the past. the whole point of mystic teaching is to rid oneself opf those obsessions with the past and to experience the present moment.

when you or anyone is having a wonderful time, at a sonic youth concert for instance,mwhne they just kicked into Inhuman, you are living in the moment, not analyzing what just hapened, but instead epxriencing everything at the speed of our neurons, which is just short of light speed, almost infi nitessimally instantaneous.

.

oh yes this is true. i have also had such religious feelings at sonic youth shows. I believe the point of mystic teaching and the purpose of experiencing the actual present moment, is because the actual present moment is this eternity, this after-life, which we all seek in one way or another. I think we differ here however, in our defining of death. I see death as fully an illusion, where as, you seem to be explaining death as a drawn out process of eternity. interesting, where we intersect though.

[m1rr0r dash]

a good friend who studied law and psychology told me once that long term memories are formed during rem sleep, and that many memory disorders, including amnesia are closely linked to sleep disorders of some sort.

his theory was that if you die, say in the afternoon, the memory of your morning activities on the day of your death could not linger into any sort of eternal afterlife. he claimed it was physiologically impossible, you just wouldn't remember the events of your final day. if, on the other hand, you died in your sleep early in the morning, after a night of dreaming and storing long term memories of your final day, then they would accompany you in eternity.

but i like your theory better, because you are saying that there is only a perceptual eternity; relative to any clock observed by those still living, what you perceive as eternal peace or eternal suffering occurs within the space of a few minutes as life is fading from your body and it returns to dust. if this is true, then both long and short term memories would be a part of what you experiences "after death," or during death.

[girlgun]

Originally Posted by m1rr0r dash

a good friend who studied law and psychology told me once that long term memories are formed during rem sleep, and that many memory disorders, including amnesia are closely linked to sleep disorders of some sort.

that's just one of a thousand theories regarding REM. and probably not the right one.

[m1rr0r dash]

i never claimed he was right, in fact i said i like rob I.'s theory better.

[✌➬]

Can someone explain REM, because I don't feel like googling it and coming up with the band R.E.M.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by girlgun

that's just one of a thousand theories regarding REM. and probably not the right one.

I thought this was a prevailing theory re: REM?

"The Magicians Penn and Teller used the phrase on a TV trick [1] with a Nobel Prize winner.
R.E.M. vocalist Michael Stipe said of the incident: "It remains the premier unsolved American surrealist act of the 20th century. It's a misunderstanding that was scarily random, media hyped and just plain bizarre."

[girlgun]

Originally Posted by m1rr0r dash

i never claimed he was right, in fact i said i like rob I.'s theory better.

well i was just addressing that one fact.

synth.. there are different stages of sleep. stage 1 and 2, and then 3 and 4 are slow wave sleep or deep sleep. REM is also a stage which becomes more frequent the longer you sleep. you know that rem is rapid eye movement. and when someone has rapid eye movement, it's easy to tell they're dreaming. no one really knows the purpose of dreaming and there are a million theories from totally new age sort of bullshit to it being nothing... neurons firing randomly (which is actually what i believe). but nonetheless, REM is necessary. if you are REM suppressed, you are excessively tired and fatigued.

[pbradley]

I've never had a really convincing "long time in a dream but short in reality" kind of experience.

[✌➬]

Originally Posted by girlgun

well i was just addressing that one fact.

synth.. there are different stages of sleep. stage 1 and 2, and then 3 and 4 are slow wave sleep or deep sleep. REM is also a stage which becomes more frequent the longer you sleep. you know that rem is rapid eye movement. and when someone has rapid eye movement, it's easy to tell they're dreaming. no one really knows the purpose of dreaming and there are a million theories from totally new age sort of bullshit to it being nothing... neurons firing randomly (which is actually what i believe). but nonetheless, REM is necessary. if you are REM suppressed, you are excessively tired and fatigued.

Oh ok, thank you love.