[ni'k]

I've been finding it hard to take music seriously or give much of a shit about whatever points the artist is trying to put across the more I learn about politics. An artists ego can seem like a pretty fake thing in comparison to what actually goes on in the world.

how does capitalism either degradate or enhance yr emotional involvement in music?

does the commodification of music rob it of artistic integrity?

what real difference can art make to an individual enslaved in capitalism? doesnt it just fufill us with fantasies of becoming a member of the class that enslaves us? is it not counter productive to buy into the egos of a musician dependant on you to ride out their little narcissitic mythical fantasy of self?

is it not pathetic to simply praise those that make art that highlights issues and worship the idea of highlighting issues for people who get a kick out of the supposed authenticity of the art which does this instead of actually doing something about it?


the bitterness of this is just me letting off steam.
maybe im just getting older and jaded... i dunno... it seems like i cant care anymore... which i find really sad.

[GrungeMonkey]

que?

[pbradley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0IOaef83VQ

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by ni'k

I've been finding it hard to take music seriously or give much of a shit about whatever points the artist is trying to put across the more I learn about politics. An artists ego can seem like a pretty fake thing in comparison to what actually goes on in the world.

how does capitalism either degradate or enhance yr emotional involvement in music?

does the commodification of music rob it of artistic integrity?

what real difference can art make to an individual enslaved in capitalism? doesnt it just fufill us with fantasies of becoming a member of the class that enslaves us? is it not counter productive to buy into the egos of a musician dependant on you to ride out their little narcissitic mythical fantasy of self?

is it not pathetic to simply praise those that make art that highlights issues and worship the idea of highlighting issues for people who get a kick out of the supposed authenticity of the art which does this instead of actually doing something about it?


the bitterness of this is just me letting off steam.
maybe im just getting older and jaded... i dunno... it seems like i cant care anymore... which i find really sad.

This post brought to you by First World Musings.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by ni'k

does the commodification of music rob it of artistic integrity?

and how should musicians make a living for themselves? if anything there is something to be admired in a person earning a living through the fruits of their labour.

[diskaholic-anonymous]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

and how should musicians make a living for themselves? if anything there is something to be admired in a person earning a living through the fruits of their labour.

yes! but that is not problem, i think the problem is when the artist compromise the artistic integrity in benefit of what he can earn with that, and the capitalism easily change the artistic ego $$$$$$$$ in these days ($ MTV $)!!!!
you think sonic youth is compromise by capitalism?

[Savage Clone]

Keiji Haino and SunnO))) seem to do OK sans compromise.

[Everyneurotic]

i don't think i buy records by bands that are on mtv these days, and it's not like all i listen is super underground music.

the fact that the have existed for a few years and are able to tour and everything tells they are doing ok.

[pbradley]

I think Sonic Youth is more compromised by hipster worrying that they are being compromised than by anything else.

[PAULYBEE2656]

sorry what were you saying... i was too busy blowing my nose in my 100 euro note.....

Originally Posted by ni'k

how does capitalism either degradate or enhance yr emotional involvement in music?

It doesn't.

does the commodification of music rob it of artistic integrity?

Nope.


what real difference can art make to an individual enslaved in capitalism?

Nobody ever asked the artists to make any real change to anything. Leave it to more incompetent/competent people.

doesnt it just fufill us with fantasies of becoming a member of the class that enslaves us?
Why would anyone realistically aspire to be poor? Good art is produced regardless of your social status. innit?

is it not counter productive to buy into the egos of a musician dependant on you to ride out their little narcissitic mythical fantasy of self?
Again, it's your choice as a consumer of music not to do that. Nobody's forcing you.

is it not pathetic to simply praise those that make art that highlights issues and worship the idea of highlighting issues for people who get a kick out of the supposed authenticity of the art which does this instead of actually doing something about it?

I'm not sure of what you mean with that.


the bitterness of this is just me letting off steam.

Capitalism just caught you, there. Kidding.
maybe im just getting older and jaded... i dunno... it seems like i cant care anymore... which i find really sad.

Hmm, not sure if this has to do with society, maybe personal issues are at stake more than anything else.

...

[Dead-Air]

Certainly sometimes music is damaged by being a commodity, or at least it has been throughout time.

However, I think the current economic collapse of the record label economic model and relatively inexpensive means of independent (and I mean that on a personal level not "indie" level) production and distribution, make this the time to stop musing so much over the old problem rather than start.

Any one of us, for very little money can make recordings that sound pretty damn close to what was once considered "professional quality" and put them in the ears of people around the world at next to no personal cost. Who needs to sell your soul to the record label in that environment? Nothing against those that do so to make a living, I really love the music of some of them. It's just not necessary anymore, which in turn gives new freedom to those who do work within the old system. It's a lot harder for the big label to tell you how to sound (or dress!) if you don't need them to get your music recorded and heard in the first place.

[demonrail666]

I agree with Dead-Air here. Whether we can truly escape capitalism in creating art is debatable, but ironically, at a point in history where capitalism has reached such a global dominance, the creation and distribution of music seems less hampered by it now than at any time I can think of. I increasingly have less time for artists signed to large-scale commercial labels (be they 'majors' or so-called 'indies'), not necessarily because of the direct effect it has on their music, but because it's unnecessary. OK, it gives their music a higher media/store profile and potentially generates more income for them, but if that's all it really offers, doesn't it just show how ego and money obsessed most artists really are?

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

OK, it gives their music a higher media/store profile and potentially generates more income for them, but if that's all it really offers, doesn't it just show how ego and money obsessed most artists really
are?

I don't see why its so bad for artists to be able to afford health insurance. Food. Housing. But money and fame have their own kind of gravity, the more you have, the more it attracts.

Its the fashion people that disgust me.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by ni'k

I've been finding it hard to take music seriously or give much of a shit about whatever points the artist is trying to put across the more I learn about politics. An artists ego can seem like a pretty fake thing in comparison to what actually goes on in the world.

One of the things that actually goes on in the world is art. Find me a people, however impoverished, who don't make music about how great that bird's knockers are, or how sunshine's really quite alright, and I'll give you 10 fresh pounds of sterling. Artists have egos. Their political contribution is different, there's no hierarchy of politics at this level.

Why did the Teleban ban music? Or why did the USSR legislate for 'good' music? What happened to Paul Robeson? [This is, of course, not to mention books, films and visual art]

how does capitalism either degradate or enhance yr emotional involvement in music?

This question is a non-sequitur. Capitalism doesn't directly affect my personally, I am one of its affects if anything.

does the commodification of music rob it of artistic integrity?

No. What is a commodity? A record, or a written piece of music, or just a memory of a song? Does it make any odds to the individual? Or, from another perspective, where is this artistic integrity?

what real difference can art make to an individual enslaved in capitalism? doesnt it just fufill us with fantasies of becoming a member of the class that enslaves us? is it not counter productive to buy into the egos of a musician dependant on you to ride out their little narcissitic mythical fantasy of self?

Why are you being such a patronising cunt?

is it not pathetic to simply praise those that make art that highlights issues and worship the idea of highlighting issues for people who get a kick out of the supposed authenticity of the art which does this instead of actually doing something about it?

If you want to do something, do something. Stop whinging at other people. If I want to listen to Billy Bragg, I will. "I'm not coming to the revolution if I can't dance".

Otherwise, what 'marras said.

[auto-aim]

Originally Posted by pbradley

I think Sonic Youth is more compromised by hipster worrying that they are being compromised than by anything else.

I like that. this is an interesting but also confusing topic. I thought Dead-Air made some good points too (also, is that a reference to heatmiser?) and certainly the rules are changing. The rules are changing and this is the only thing that makes me think that it's possible that the next great movement in music could be coming. But it's probably not.
Sure, most of modern life now is based on commodity. If i get no commitments and some mild form of dyslexia I could pretty happily live the rest of my life on hand outs and die of cancer in my early 40's or some shit. Music - in the way that it's delivered and received - is most defiantly a luxury and not needed for survival (though it keeps me sane) There is also a big split in my mind between when it is a social thing and when it is a personal thing.
Music - in and of itself is something thats far more carnal, however, and core to the human existence than commodity or capitalism or any of these bullshit invention words of man that could never really mean anything. Whereas music can if you're not shallow.
We live in a time when there's far too much information but nobody knows fuck all. I'm just a stupid cunt that's going to die, just like you, not worth anything.
Any great movement, or just music, comes from anything that, not necisarily rejects the norm - it's just separate... it doesnt care about the norm. It's not concerned. I see many "alternative" bands and they're just the fucking same - just like the pop bands. The majority of people can't differentiate what it is that separates them because all they can see is the big swinging cock of acceptance... this is where all the cunts and the capitalists spawn from... and the money and shit comes in and fucks it up. it dies. you either wait for the next thing or give up and think there was only one good thing that ever existed ever. (in terms of music). And it's like no grey area exists but the right people will know. And know that I'm off my fucking head right now,l I really hope the human race gets wiped out one day soon.

[ni'k]

stop whinging?

do you even listen to yourself?

glice, noone is impressed by yr ability to respond to things people say by being a cunt.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by ni'k

stop whinging?

do you even listen to yourself?

glice, noone is impressed by yr ability to respond to things people say by being a cunt.

Yeah, and everyone is really impressed with your ability to sit on some kind of self-satisfied high horse acting like you know everyone's fucking motivation for doing what they do.
I guess everyone has some sort of ulterior, self-serving motive for creating what they create. You know, except you.
Because you're Mister Pure.
Drop me a line sometime with some photos of that self contained and self-sustaining compound you've started on that one island that you found, didn't have to pay anyone for and didn't have to kick any indigenous people off of. I'm sure it's lovely.
Jesus fucking Christ, these kinds of tail-eating circular arguments are tedious.

[✌➬]

How many times do I have to say, "music is music"?

[akprodr]

All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever even heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit,
And then you bought one.
All you read and wear or see and hear on TV
Is a product begging for your fatass dirty dollar so
... Shut up and
Buy. Buy. Buy. Buy my new record.
Buy. Buy. Buy. Send more money