[summer]

Now, I have never heard a vinyl record in my life. My parents sold theirs long ago, and I see no reason to invest in one myself, but I'm curious. Anyone here who buys vinyl, why? I have heard that the sound quality is better, and to me this makes no sense. Perhaps if it is, it would only be because CDs are mastered poorly (loudness war), not necessarily because CDs are an inferior medium? Or, maybe, you only buy vinyl purely out of preference?

I dunno. Just curious. Never seen the point of it, so I'd like to see different opinions.

[atsonicpark]

I personally think it does make most albums sound a bit "better". Everything has kind of a friendly, warm, soft sound to it. It's very odd. I think it's more of a nostalgic thing for most people, as a lot of people listened to records when they were growing up... it doesn't actually make an album better or worse (in most cases; there's some interesting albums that use "locked grooves" that would be impossible to do on any other format, for example), but certainly it's an aesthetically interesting format, not to mention people often fetishize for big black vinyl circles and huge versions of album art.

[DJ Rick]

Regardless of the debate about sound quality (and I do believe that vinyl is superior to CD), much of the very best music available today is only released on vinyl, and that is the reason why any serious music fan should have a turntable.

Furthermore, you can shelve a lot more music on vinyl since it's so much flatter than so many jewelcases. And the artwork is actually something to look at.

[terminal pharmacy]

Originally Posted by summer

Now, I have never heard a vinyl record in my life. My parents sold theirs long ago, and I see no reason to invest in one myself, but I'm curious. Anyone here who buys vinyl, why? I have heard that the sound quality is better, and to me this makes no sense. Perhaps if it is, it would only be because CDs are mastered poorly (loudness war), not necessarily because CDs are an inferior medium? Or, maybe, you only buy vinyl purely out of preference?

I dunno. Just curious. Never seen the point of it, so I'd like to see different opinions.

Vinyl sounding better makes complete sense, you probably just need it explained why it is so; so here is the explanation: current digital recording technologies are as of yet unable to supply the sampling rates that can encode all the harmonics that can be heard in analogue recordings. Up until recently the highest sample rates have been 320khz this means 320,000 samples per second, this is then down sampled to cd medium which is 16bit with a sampling rate of 44.1khz or 44100 samples per second. This has an effect on the harmonics that we are unable to hear, however just because we can't hear it, it doesn't mean these harmonics are irrelevant. These harmonic frequencies interact with those within our hearing range and this is what people recognise as warmth in a recording.

Ahhhh you say but isn't most stuff these days recorded digitally??? Well yes it is but before the signals end up as ones and zeros there is a significant amount of analogue processing that these signals will pass through to bring the extra warmth to the recording, yet while the warmth is added in through these processors such as avalon tube compressors, neve channel strips etc the nice warm analogue signal is still degraded somewhat once it has moved through it final stages and through the a/d converters. This however, still makes vinyl recorded and pressed in modern times warmer sounding than the same music pressed to cd.

Current the highest sample rates are available through sony's new dsd technology which not many studios have. The sample rates of this technology is around 2.4ghz, so 2,400,000 samples per second. This is a marked improvement on the previous sample rates and it can really be heard quite dramatically. An example would be Carl Orff's Camina Burana conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas. This particular cd sounds a whole lot better than any other cd i have in my collection and this is due to the massive leap in sample rates. Although this is a large jump it still does not hold the same warmth as a good analogue recording.

The loudness war really doesn't make much difference to vinyl records sounding better than cds. Yes The same music will be mastered differently for the two different mediums but this has less impact than the actual technological differences that I outlined before. But as an example something like QOTSA's songs for the deaf, if the mastering that was on the cd was the same master that was on the vinyl you would have a hard time keeping the stylus in the groove. That is the biggest issue with this loudness war. Things are generally brick wall limited and almost all dynamics are cut out of the music so the quiet songs will be the same volume as the loud songs.

The digital versus analogue issue is not just an issue in the domestic world of vinyl and cds... I notice it alot with my work and what is going around the pro audio industry. My console of choice is a digital console but I usually choose to have, client budget permitting, some outboard analogue processing, particularly for vocal channels. Most large format digital consoles have ugly sounding mic pres so there is a need to suplement these with something nice and warm. I generally use a Yamaha M7CL console which is a very good digital console but the preamps sound a bit lifeless. The higher end digital consoles that are coming out now, like the new Midas console is a lot better but it is also $500,000 so not many people get to play with them.

Any way I hope that clears some things up for you. Ohhh and yes I still buy vinyl and I also buy cds. I don't however do mp3, because even at the best quality they suck balls.

[super_charger]

Vinyl sounds warmer because all the popping and crackling subconsciously makes you think of a campfire.

Kidding.

Vinyl is a better collectors item though because of the artwork and novelty. If this doesn't matter to you then CDs are just fine.

[narlus]

to me, the CD format is certainly a dying one, destined to be replaced by some other digital manifestation in the short term. LPs have longevity, and i wish i'd kept buying them in the mid-90s/00s. over the last 3-4 years, i've reverted to mainly buying LPs.

as said above, buying MP3s seems totally pointless to me.

[noisereductions]

why yr face?

[Rob Instigator]

I am 35 years old. I grew up with records and cassettes. I personally just love manipulating the records and turntable. a vinyl record, grooves gouged out of a piece of plastic in which a tiny needle with a tiny sapphire or diamond on the tip rides along and moves up and down and laterally to recreate the exact wave functions that make the air vibrate as sound is magic to me.
I love the cover art, the inserts, the inner sleeve art, and in Jazz and classical and blues albums, the fucking intensive and lengthy liner notes. I miss liner notes in CD's. CD's ar so tiny printed that many bands forego liner notes. I used to learn about the band or the artist from them.
I like that if my records get dirty I can wash them. I like that many albums come in cool colors and crazy etchings and limited edition stuff.
I love how a vinyl record feels like an artifact or a historical record as opposed to a consumer product. CD's are by their very nature disposable.

I love how you can get an old 78 rpm shellac platter from 1920 and clean it and play it still, hearing what your grandparents and great grandparents used to jam and fuck to. Old records are stashed away everywhere and they are almost lik archeological finds. I doubt anyone willl ever do exhasutive searches through small mississippi delta towns for historical CD's. people did that in the 60's for old vinyl/shellac 78's, even robert crumb, going door to door at old black southern families and asking if they had old records they would want to sell.
I love how , on a decent system (nothing fancy) you can crank up the volume on a record and continue to get great sound, super fucking loud. you crank up a CD, and not even a poorly mastered one, and you can really hear the distortion and degradadation of the fidelity. I can hear this at clubs and bars when the dj is "spinning" cd's instead of vinyl. grandmaster flash still rocks vinyl when he dj's around the world.
I love the utter simplicity of the techonology needed to play records. anyone with basic electronic knowledge and a radio shack can actually build a turntable and play records. the same cannot be said for cd players or digital file players.

I love records.
I still buy CD's if not vailable on vinyl, but you must remember, that fully 99% of all recorded music of the last 100 years is on vinyl and not on CD and will likely never get re-isued on CD or digital files. if you like old music, old reggae and dub from jamaica, old soul singles, old jazz and classical, old country folk music, old delta blues, you can find the consensus "greats" on reissues, but that is just the tip of the iceberg there.

[noisereductions]

dammit!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rob Instigator again.

Rob finally makes a thoughtful, insightful post and I must've wasted rep on one of his booby jokes or something.

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I personally think it does make most albums sound a bit "better". Everything has kind of a friendly, warm, soft sound to it. It's very odd. I think it's more of a nostalgic thing for most people, as a lot of people listened to records when they were growing up... it doesn't actually make an album better or worse (in most cases; there's some interesting albums that use "locked grooves" that would be impossible to do on any other format, for example), but certainly it's an aesthetically interesting format, not to mention people often fetishize for big black vinyl circles and huge versions of album art.

exactly what asp said

[[Sandbag]]

because cd jewel cases SUCK.

[PAULYBEE2656]

i find it scary that people never heard a record playing. my 8 year old is fascinated with how music comes out of those big black circles! and i am meeting people more frequently that have never touched a vinyl record....that scares me kinda.........

as for my own personal opinion, yeah vinyl is amazing, its great but i am not a format junkie, i buy vinyl sometimes (singles yeah) and cds often...mp3s dont have their longevity..... i like to hold my music in my hand.

[atsonicpark]

I'd like to express some thoughts about that OLD X-Men arcade game. It's a great game and all, with good levels, characters, and plot, but WHO WROTE THESE CHEESY LINES? Practically every word that comes out of the character's mouths is something corny!


For example, when you first go on Magneto's island, he throws you into a trap and yells "WELCOME TO DIE!!!!!!!!" Another stupid thing that annoys everybody is in the 2nd level, when you fight the blob. Every time you hit him, and he falls down and gets up, he says "Nothing moves the Blob!" I mean, what a thing to say after you've just thrown him on the floor! I think the guy has a little bit too much self-confidence there!



The final fight with Magneto isn't all poetic either. EVERY time he kills you, he goes "You are dead! Ha ha ha!" That's like me walking up to people on the street and going "You are carbon-based life forms! Ha ha ha!" or "You drink water! Ha ha ha!"


However, the worst, stupidest line in the game that cracks people up when I repeat it to them is when you supposedly "find" Professor X after beating Juggernaut. It's really a shapeshifter in disguise, and you know how she throws the X-Men into a trap? She, as Professor X, goes "Thank God you're here, X-Men! Magneto is over there!" I was like "Ummmmm...." when I read that line, it just WRITHED with sheer stupidity! "Magneto is over there!" Now, something like "Magneto is planning to destroy the world in his base! Let's go get him!" wouldn't be as corny as "Magneto is over there!"

[chrome noise tape]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I love records.
I still buy CD's if not vailable on vinyl, but you must remember, that fully 99% of all recorded music of the last 100 years is on vinyl and not on CD and will likely never get re-isued on CD or digital files. if you like old music, old reggae and dub from jamaica, old soul singles, old jazz and classical, old country folk music, old delta blues, you can find the consensus "greats" on reissues, but that is just the tip of the iceberg there.

 

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Rob finally makes a thoughtful, insightful post and I must've wasted rep on one of his booby jokes or something.

Booby jokes are never wasted.

[Glice]

It's interesting that the decrease in tactile surfaces on the medium of music seems to have increased the number of people engaging with, and producing, recorded music.

This subject comes around quite frequently, and it's always difficult not to engage. Music's an emotional thing like that, not to mention it's a cultural mnemonic. For myself, I'd almost never buy a second-hand CD, but second-hand LPs are fine. This isn't per se a comment on the quality of the sound-production in the medium, but to do with the mental associations - CDs are small, plastic objects that I struggle to look after; LPs are cumbersome large things with cardboard sleeves. It's not that the sound quality on the LP is better, it's the sheer nature of the object that compels people to care about them.

And in terms of sound quality, I prefer classical music on CD and pretty much everything else (except necessarily long music) on wax.

[Better_Than_You]

Originally Posted by terminal pharmacy

Vinyl sounding better makes complete sense, you probably just need it explained why it is so; so here is the explanation: current digital recording technologies are as of yet unable to supply the sampling rates that can encode all the harmonics that can be heard in analogue recordings. Up until recently the highest sample rates have been 320khz this means 320,000 samples per second, this is then down sampled to cd medium which is 16bit with a sampling rate of 44.1khz or 44100 samples per second. This has an effect on the harmonics that we are unable to hear, however just because we can't hear it, it doesn't mean these harmonics are irrelevant. These harmonic frequencies interact with those within our hearing range and this is what people recognise as warmth in a recording.

did you copy and paste this from somewhere?? cause damn. if that came off of the top of your head, i think you should maybe invest in a carreer of professional 'explaining'. like... for fuckin' ceral boxes and shit. serious. its good money. i know a spoken word artists in minneapolis/st.paul (dessa) who did that and made good $$$$.

-----------------------------------------

frankly, i prefer vinyl to cd because its indier.

i said it. you all were thinking it.

[davenotdead]

frankly, i prefer vinyl to cd because its indier.

i said it. you all were thinking it.[/quote]

[Rob Instigator]

I was not thinking it.

Nobody I know even knows what is indie or underground anymore.

I run into people who have never even heard of robert crumb. it makes me sad.

[Better_Than_You]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I was not thinking it.

according to my telepathy machine, you were.

its right in between

" 'tits' on May 28 @ 2 pm' "

and

" 'ass' on May 28 @ 2:02 pm' "