[The Earl Of Slander]

Right, so I was just cooking some food with my cousin, and I’d put OutKast on, and the track ‘Roses’ spurred a discussion about what she called the “sophomoric” aspect of a lot of hip-hop. The basic thrust of her complaint was that, while she really likes a lot hip-hop in a slightly detached way, she also finds it difficult to find that much in the genre that she really makes a visceral emotional connection to in the same way that she connects to other very “lyric-centric” artists, like Bob Dylan ETC. The reason she gave for this was that, although she thinks a lot of hip-hop is very clever, funny, great to dance to, fantastic musically, ETC, she often finds this paired with a lack of real emotional insight.

She especially had issues with a lot of male hip-hop, which she thought was slightly gross in it’s relationship to women, and found that, although she likes a lot of more “socially conscious” stuff that I’ve played her, like, say, Public Enemy or Gangstarr, it still frequently seems one-sided, shallowly angry, and so on. You know the arguments. Quite a bit of the problem for her in really engaging with the music can largely be placed at the feet of her being white, female and middle-class, something that I can understand. I mean I’m white and male, and I sometimes have similar issues with the genre, without even having to deal with the misogyny.

In talking about “other kinds of hip-hop”, I kind of found that, while there is a lot of ‘intelligent’ rap that I love, such as, say, MF Doom or Kool Keith or some Wu Tang related stuff, ETC, most of the stuff I mentioned was very much about being sort of cold and emotionally removed. The appeal is in the wit, the creation of characters, the cleverness of the construction ETC. It’s not simple or ‘gangsta’ at all, but it’s still not really about the emotional connection with the artist. The same goes for political stuff, which is often more about the anger than the vulnerability or the people.

I don’t want to make too many generalisations here, because of course I have heard hip-hop that’s very nuanced, complex, ETC (Mos Def comes to mind). Also, I don’t want to give the impression that this is me dissing on hip-hop at all, because I really do a love a lot of the music. However, and I’m vainly trying to avoid sounding too pretentious here, the point is really that I struggled to name many hip-hop artists that really tugged those old heartstrings or made me think about the “human condition” in the same way that someone like Dylan does. Hence, I’d like you to recommend some artists which provide a counter-argument.

[summer]

..I am WAY too tired to do more than just skim that, so.. here is a list of good hip-hop that I find kinda sorta emotionally affecting.

Black Star- Black Star
Q-Tip- The Renaissance
Common- Electric Circus

edit: Actually reading your last paragraph, you say you want the "human condition", I think you need to check out the Black Star and Q-Tip for sure. You mentioned you've already heard Mos Def, so if you have already heard Black Star, then oh well sorry, but if you haven't, it's something you definitely need to check out. Listen to this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xBZ3Cs9bCM

[Danny Himself]

 

This chap would probably do the trick. Shadrach "Shad" Kabango.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIoOWA7sH8s "Out Of Love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoM6t5SMFFw "Out Of Love Pt. II"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCxPp4AOfQA "Question Marks"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKLfOO7hQOo interview

And um, maybe Fat Lip, formerly of the Pharcyde. His solo album, at least, had some excellent introspective, honest songs- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgfmvMcOi4 -there's one.

[noisereductions]

Sage Francis - Personal Journals
Atmosphere - GodLovesUgly
Sole - Selling Live Water
Deep Puddle Dynamics - The Taste Of Rain...
etc

[Danny Himself]

 

[Toilet & Bowels]

Mike Ladd
Apani B Fly
MF Grimm
Monster Island Czars
Flava Flavs solo album has some great semi-R&B tracks

[batreleaser]

diamond shell
leaders of the new school
krown rulers

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Danny Himself

 

1. great album
2. not "emotionally affecting"

... I wish Necro had stayed this good. I dont think he ever made another album this solid.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

diamond shell
leaders of the new school
krown rulers

do you ever read the question before posting an answer?

[Toilet & Bowels]

2pac - Brenda's Got A Baby
Juggaknots - Clear Blue Skies


obvious choice: Nas - Illmatic

[atsonicpark]

definitely necro "i need drugs" and chuggo.. they affect me anyway..

[screamingskull]

you can't go wrong with People's Instinctive Travels and Paths of Rhythm by A Tribe Called Quest, that album has got so many stories and positive messages.

 

I also love Big Shot's by Charizma, that album is like poetry, check this song out
http://www.yousendit.com/download/Mn...Nnl0d0hIRGc9PQ

 

[Danny Himself]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

1. great album
2. not "emotionally affecting"

... I wish Necro had stayed this good. I dont think he ever made another album this solid.

Yeah I was joking

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Danny Himself

Yeah I was joking

okay good. But seriously, he's a hell of a producer. He should stick to that.

[atsonicpark]

I fucking love necro.

Drinkin a bile at your pancriest the fanciest talkin lyricist pack a shank on the hips
Your a skanky bitch slit your wrist clitoris if your inhibited i'll piss in your syphillis incubus
Mr. death Dr. demize surgeon slice you'll die really slowly if you don't appreciate life your wack if you dont appreciate knives the way a knife slices percise its trife its a domonic device
The chronic you light inhale for those in jail to those that beef get impaled and buried in snails my brains charred like burnt flesh your scarred rippin your breast apart digest your heart die

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I fucking love necro.

Drinkin a bile at your pancriest the fanciest talkin lyricist pack a shank on the hips
Your a skanky bitch slit your wrist clitoris if your inhibited i'll piss in your syphillis incubus
Mr. death Dr. demize surgeon slice you'll die really slowly if you don't appreciate life your wack if you dont appreciate knives the way a knife slices percise its trife its a domonic device
The chronic you light inhale for those in jail to those that beef get impaled and buried in snails my brains charred like burnt flesh your scarred rippin your breast apart digest your heart die

that (your fuckin head split) is the only song i've heard from him that i didn't think was rubbish

[noisereductions]

There's tons of great ones. "I Need Drugs," "The Most Sadistic," "White Slavery," etc. I just don't think he makes solid albums, with the exception of GORY DAYS.

[Sonic Youth 37]

Originally Posted by screamingskull

I also love Big Shot's by Charizma, that album is like poetry, check this song out
http://www.yousendit.com/download/Mn...Nnl0d0hIRGc9PQ

 

^ THIS

[Better_Than_You]

The new atmosphere is pretty poetic.. "When God hands you lemons you paint that shit GOLD".. but you can tell he's making it more commercial. Which is fine by me the beats are pretty badass.

and the doomtree organization that was organized in minneapolis is a group of spoken word artists that now rap.. so.. i think thats as poetic as it gets.

maybe you should try and check out spoken word artists?? Theres a local artists, Dessa, that came to our class and talked to us. Shes REALLY badass... a female rapper that started out as a spoken word artist..

Poetic Assasins.. also a local spoken word group from minneapolis.

bascially any MNSWA group will probably get your noodle going.

[TheDom]

Common - Like Water For Chocolate
Aesop Rock - Labor Days
RICK ROSS - Trilla