[khchris(original)]

Should we kick the illegal immigrants out of the country?
Should we just let them stay without criminal prosecution?
Should we jail them or deport them?
Should we grant all current illegal immigrants automatic citizenship?

Suggestions? Thoughts? What should our Gov't do?

Does "white suburban America"(ie. SY fans) care?

[ricechex]

First things first, close those damn borders. geez..11 or 12 million illegals is enough, i would think. Security. Don't treat them as felons and kick them out, but they have to file for proper citizenship or else they're out..maybe have a time frame in which they have to follow these procedures...and no automatic benefits of cititzenship until they're in the system, documented, accounted for. It's wrong that illegals expect U.S rights at our cost. No temp worker bs, that's just a clusterfuck. i don't know how much i buy the old argument of jobs americans won't do..it's true to an extent, but...i think it perpetuates letting them in illegally, taking U.S jobs, and paying them nothing.

[jon boy]

they should control the media so that they report that all imigrants are here to steal peoples jobs and take over power in a spree of crime ridden anarchy. they should tell everyone that the entire fabric of society will be torn into shreds if we allow this to keep happening, oh wait...

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by ricechex

First things first, close those damn borders. geez..11 or 12 million illegals is enough, i would think. Security. Don't treat them as felons and kick them out, but they have to file for proper citizenship or else they're out..maybe have a time frame in which they have to follow these procedures...and no automatic benefits of cititzenship until they're in the system, documented, accounted for. It's wrong that illegals expect U.S rights at our cost. No temp worker bs, that's just a clusterfuck. i don't know how much i buy the old argument of jobs americans won't do..it's true to an extent, but...i think it perpetuates letting them in illegally, taking U.S jobs, and paying them nothing.

It takes 4 years to become an American Citizen after filing and going through the process. What do we do with those who are already in the country? You brought up the idea that they should "file for proper citizenship or else...", what do we do with those who are already in the country who are made to file today? Do they have to go through the process just like those who are in line to become citizens legally? Or are they granted citizenship automatically? If they're not granted citizenship automatically, then are they given green cards/work permits automatically? If they are granted citizenship automatically, what message is being sent to those who go through the process legally?

I'll state my stance in a moment. I'm just trying to get people thinking about all the angles because IMO this issue is extremely delicate and much more complex than it seems.

[ronnierubbish]

It's really simple: The whole concept of "illegal" immigration is absurd. If white people didn't enter this country illegally (or, at least, immorally), then it's not even possible (especially for some guy from Mexico that just wants a job). Hmm. Genocide of the native Americans, anyone?

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

"white suburban America"(ie. SY fans)

easy there, stereotyping nazi

and you get offended when K-K-K-chris makes his appearance here

we are not all like you...fucking bigot

[ronnierubbish]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

easy there, stereotyping nazi

and you get offended when K-K-K-chris makes his appearance here

we are not all like you...fucking bigot

haha, i'm a white suburbanite, but good call anyway, my friend.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

easy there, stereotyping nazi

and you get offended when K-K-K-chris makes his appearance here

we are not all like you...fucking bigot

LOL!

Doesn't it suck Everyneurotic that you can't play your "troll" games here or else you'd get banned???

Do you ever sleep at night?

BTW, yeah...it was a good call


If you could tell me what is funny about "KKK", maybe I would've understood your reasoning to troll.

[SkDc]

i think that the mexicans (illegals) in the USA if they really love mexico they must to return to mexico and work for the country.
here are many opportunities of work etc, and why not? create their own opportunities.

Aquien le gusta estar en un lugar donde no lo quieren? yo creo que a nadie, sinceramente no entiendo a los inmigrantes ilegales, para mi es un pretexto el decir que se van porque no hay oportunidades, para mi es el camino facil y mas que nada se a echo una costumbre y casi una tradicion. tambien la verdad me molesta ver en la tv miles de mexicanos con banderas de mexico y gritando cosas patrioticas cuando ellos fueron los primeros en huir, no se quedaron a afrontar los problemas y a cambiar el pais. y mas que ayudar a su tan "amado" pais le quitan lo mas importante que es su capital humano y dan una mala impresion del pais a nivel mundial, gracias a ellos (y aa los de otros paises tambien) muchos al decir mexicanos lo primero que piensan es en la sirvienta o en el ilegal que conocen etc... no soy malinchista pero no podemos estar culpando a USA por las acciones que tome alfin y al cabo son solo acciones tomadas pero no son ellos los del problema somos nosotros (mexico) los que debemos cambiar las cosas. yo no conosco a nadie que sea ilegal y tal ves por eso no comprenda al 100% lo que ellos piensan o su desesperacion pero asi veo las cosas y para mi no hay pretexto.

[ricechex]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

It takes 4 years to become an American Citizen after filing and going through the process. What do we do with those who are already in the country?

??? r they being processed for citizenship, in the system, or not?

You brought up the idea that they should "file for proper citizenship or else...", what do we do with those who are already in the country who are made to file today?

Nothing. They stay like they always have, but r accounted for, and in the system, documented. They have X amount of time to follow the process.


Do they have to go through the process just like those who are in line to become citizens legally?

Yes.

Or are they granted citizenship automatically?

No. Have to follow the process first, meeting criteria to advance to citizenship.

If they're not granted citizenship automatically, then are they given green cards/work permits automatically?

Probably yeah, but we know about them.

If they are granted citizenship automatically, what message is being sent to those who go through the process legally?

They're not granted citizenship illegally. They go through the system like everyone else, legally. The only thing that seperates them from legal citizenship, is how they physically got here. Practicality.

I'll state my stance in a moment. I'm just trying to get people thinking about all the angles because IMO this issue is extremely delicate and much more complex than it seems.

Yes, this is very complex. Hell, we haven't even touched on the reprecussions on an economic front. Thinking of all angles and writing about them is more suited for writing a book, not posting dribs and drabs on a message board.

[Rob Instigator]

this issue is NOT about m,exicans. Only 60% of the latin american immigrants that are here illegaly are mexican. there are about 30 other countries' peoples here too. Mexico just happens to be the closest one so every person goes through mexico to get here. I think that closed borders is stupid as hell. I think making it a fucking FELONY to be here illegaly is stupid as hell. I think jingoistic fucking assholes are using "immigrants" as a scapegoat for shit, and using it as a distraction from Iraq and afghanmistan. they did the same thing with the abortion debate a year ago. the people that are here working , that we choose to tag wit the fearmongering phrase "illegal alien" (which could just as easily be called "undocumented immigrant" sounds less threatening huh?), they are HARD ORKING people. they work in fields that otherwise noone would do. construction, agriculture, home cleaning, handyman, maids, sitters, nannies, etc. They pay taxes, they consume goods in the usa, they pay rent, the FEEED our economy.

don;t believe the hype

[ricechex]

Yeah, well the idea of a distraction by the right is sound one normally, but the right is split on this. bush, i think, doesn't want this fight b/c things are so bad across the board, it will only serve to split his base. Also Bush doesn't want them here legally, per se , b/c then there is a spotlight on what these people work for, and what will need to be given to them by the govt. they'd rather have them under the table so they, the businesses etc , can dictate terms over the workers... perpetuating power over the working class w/o govt. interference..same idea.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

LOL!

Doesn't it suck Everyneurotic that you can't play your "troll" games here or else you'd get banned???

Do you ever sleep at night?

BTW, yeah...it was a good call


If you could tell me what is funny about "KKK", maybe I would've understood your reasoning to troll.

do you think i'm kkkchris? do you think i would hide behind some other screename to annoy you? do you think you are that important to me?

well, no i'm not; if you read correctly, i didn't mock you or anything, in fact i didn't even post to annoy you. i addressed you straight up. (you probably just read "kkkchirs" and got your panties in a twist)

like everytime i post something for you to read, i have yet to explain it to you (here comes the kkk reference). i was pointing out that you post endlessly about racism in the us being bad and so on, when all of a sudden you turn around and start stereotyping and generalizing the people who like sonic youth and post in this board, pointing your finger and mocking them as "white suburban american". first of all, you generalize that all people living in the suburbs in the us are stupid and shallow people, isn't that a generalization like what white power people say about black people and jewish people and gay people? so how's it going to be? attacking offensive stereotypification with more offensive stereotypification? that seems stupid and offensive to me, even if i'm neither "suburban", nor "white" nor "american".

which lead me to my second point here, not everybody in this board is from the suburbs in the united states. in fact, i think only half the people here are from the us, so why do you insist on thinking that everyone here is the same? that's what bothered me, you think you know who you are talking to but you don't have the slightest idea.

again, i'm not a troll and i've never been a troll, i tell the stuff i want to tell you straight up, i won't even say anything about you. i made my point.

[Glice]

Round of applause for everyneurotic... and on another point, what I quite like about message boards is that it is, essentially, raceless. Unless I choose to divulge my race, people don't need to know. To that end, I could be any number of races, nationalities or religions. As it happens I'm proud to be English, but I'm not happy to divulge my race on-line because I think that means less, here, than does nationality.

As a consequence of this, I couldn't care less about America's immigration policy, but I am interested in Britain's.

[nature scene]

There is no way to stop immigration. As long as there is a demand for the jobs and amenities of life in the U.S. people will come. So the question is not about putting an end to immigration but rather how we deal with it. Those that come here without going through the proper channels are rightly called illegal immigrants because they are here illegally.
However, these immigrants do provide very important services for the economy, and it is a fact that they do jobs that many citizens would refuse to do. Reducing barriers to trade and freeing up markets is what boosts economies around the world and battles poverty. The trade of labor should also be freed up so that if the jobs in the U.S. are better than the jobs in Latin America (which it seems that they are since millions of people flock to the U.S.) the people that want those jobs can get them.
BUT... they need to do so legally. Temporary worker programs allow workers to come from outside the U.S. and work for a specified amount of time, but after that period the workers are supposed to return to their home countries. Many of these workers establish lives in the U.S. that makes it very difficult for them to just up and leave. So should we just let them stay? Not necessarily. But should we make some provisions as to allow them the opportunity to apply for citizenship if they do wish to stay? I think so.
A temporary worker program that has a stipulation that allows for the workers to remain in the U.S. for a given number of years (I think one number being thrown around is 6 years) would allow these workers to apply for citizenship. Then they would be entitled to all the benefits of being a citizen of the U.S.. I think Rob Instigator said that these people pay taxes... well they do pay sales taxes but they certainly don't pay income taxes. I don't really understand the people that argue that illegal immigrants should receive all the same benefits of citizens. It's not that difficult to become a citizen, although it does take time.

No politicans will propose measures that will actually address the immigration issue and get to the source of the problem. Instead of trying to go after each and every one of these immigrants (and spending a shitload of tax money to do it) there should be strict enforcement of the rules for companies. However, this is not a problem of "perpetuating power over the working class" or any of that Marxist nonsense. It is just very practical. If it is harder for companies to employ illegal immigrants the number of jobs available to illegal (or undocumented) workers will decrease. Note this doesn't actually decrease the number of jobs, just that these jobs must be filled by legal workers. Since the people do want to come to the U.S., this will create an incentive for them to do so through legal means and apply for citizenship.

[SonikJesus]

damn

[SonikJesus]

I feel very strongly about this issue since my parents used to be illegal immigrants and I know how tough it is. It really pisses me off when people start talking about it when they know nothing of how it feels. These are people that have had everything handed to them their whole life and don't know even how tough it is to be an illegal immigrant.

To the people that say that immigrants come to America and jump right on the band wagon and start receiving benefits, it's not like they are coming over here and living a fucking kick-ass life. They are working in menial jobs and trying to make money. It's not like they have the money to pay taxes. Just because you have money it doesn't mean that they do. Everything is about money. Just because you are rich it doesn't mean everybody else is.
In addition to this, immigrants contribute about $90 billion to the economy each year. That's a fucking big margin.

Oh yeah, I don't know why people get mad when they say immigrants are taking "American" jobs. What makes them think that they are so much better than another human being that they deserve a job more than an immigrant. Just because on a peice of paper it say you're American, you should get the job. I just don't see why they deserve the job more. Everybody needs jobs.

[Andrés]

I'm from Chile and I'm embarrased about chileans thieves being caught in Spain

[Alex's Trip]

My teacher was talking to us about this. She said it wasn't the immigrants faults that they are working for companies and get paid next to nothing, it was the companies. I think that is really stupid though. It is their fault for participating, they know that it is illegal. Other than that I don't know too much about it. What Nature Scene said sounds good to me.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

do you think i'm kkkchris? do you think i would hide behind some other screename to annoy you? do you think you are that important to me?

well, no i'm not; if you read correctly, i didn't mock you or anything, in fact i didn't even post to annoy you. i addressed you straight up. (you probably just read "kkkchirs" and got your panties in a twist)

like everytime i post something for you to read, i have yet to explain it to you (here comes the kkk reference). i was pointing out that you post endlessly about racism in the us being bad and so on, when all of a sudden you turn around and start stereotyping and generalizing the people who like sonic youth and post in this board, pointing your finger and mocking them as "white suburban american". first of all, you generalize that all people living in the suburbs in the us are stupid and shallow people, isn't that a generalization like what white power people say about black people and jewish people and gay people? so how's it going to be? attacking offensive stereotypification with more offensive stereotypification? that seems stupid and offensive to me, even if i'm neither "suburban", nor "white" nor "american".

which lead me to my second point here, not everybody in this board is from the suburbs in the united states. in fact, i think only half the people here are from the us, so why do you insist on thinking that everyone here is the same? that's what bothered me, you think you know who you are talking to but you don't have the slightest idea.

again, i'm not a troll and i've never been a troll, i tell the stuff i want to tell you straight up, i won't even say anything about you. i made my point.

Yes, I do think you would get a login and hide just to troll, which is why you "condone trolling" even if it bothers those you hate(like myself). I'm different. I don't condone trolling whatsoever, even on people I don't care for myself(like you). If I saw a troll mocking you, I won'd not condone it at all because it's a petty thing to do. You on the contrary do support "trolling", which leads me to believe you do a bit of trolling yourself.

You are assuming and misguided. Never did I say "white suburban America" was "shallow and stupid". That's something you made up yourself. Case closed. Secondly, I never made a direct reference to you personally. So if you think me calling out "White Suburban American SY fans" was an insult to yourself, I'd have to believe that I pretty much hit the nail in the head(hahaha!). By the way, another guy had stated he was a white suburban SY fan, which is nothing wrong to be. Where did you get the idea that "white suburban SY fans" was a "bad thing" to be?

I'd be willing to bet that more than 75% of the fans here reside in the US(care to take a poll? Or are you that afraid of being proven wrong?).

Everyneurotic, sucks you can't play "kkkhchrist" anymore, huh?