[Genteel Death]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...h-2177014.html

[shabbray2.0]

I am pretty sure that the same test now will bring different results.
Authority in that form was playing a much higher role back in the days then it plays now.
to say it different:
A lot of people today got a much more healthy "problem" with authority because of different environments, parents, social behaviour etc. compared to the second world war generation.

on the other side I am pretty sure there are enough morons out there who like to turn their brain on stand by as soon as some "authority" is telling them what to do.

about the nurse experiment:
I experienced it myself how 3 nurses questioned a lethal kalium dosis from a doctor. the doc himself was working for around 36 hours and just set the comma wrong. I think it was 70mg instead of 7,0 mg or something. if the nurses would just have done what the doctor said, they would have killed the guy.

I think it highly depends who, where and under what circumstances.
A good nurse isnt a nurse who just take orders.

Bad things happen as soon as somebody doesnt think about what he does.

[!@#$%!]

it's not a myth it simply goes to show that we are more a social body than the individual likes to recognize. i.e., it's a surprise for some to find out that these things happen, but some of us have seen plenty to know different. the desire to be "normal" is extremely powerful, but eccentrics keep society in check. yet they are all part of a whole social amoeba. the normals take care of a lot of things for the common good, provided they are not given the wrong orders. therefore, always verify that the orders they have been given are correct and correctly executed. in the case of this (social) experiment, there seems to have been an artificial elimination of eccentrics at the core of the experiment design. i cannot exactly specify why, but someone should have been able to stand up and say "let's make sure that we take good care of these people after they have assassinated someone in the experiment". from the interview with the old man, it seems they did, as he did not appear in the least traumatized-- on the contrary, he was happy to have made a contribution to science. if the people would have been truly murdered then this would be another story altogether. shit, i start to sound like the police news. anyway, good year to everyone.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Free Will ironically is a fundamental doctrine of even the most authoritarian of religions. Free Will is simple to explain at any level, be it sociocultural, political, individual, internal, religious, metaphysical, scientific or cosmological..

Life is like a video game. The parameters are all pre-programed by various circumstances at any level of analysis or perspective you prefer. We are completely free to make any and every decision, but our outcomes are entirely preconceived, even if at random, by the circumstances and the parameters. Just as we are free as 4 dimensional beings to move our hands in time and space, but at the same time fundamental forces such as gravity entirely determine the parameters of every infinitely possible movement..

The Church teaches similar, but replaces gravity with God

[gast30]

no it's not
that's what i think

the book that the psychologist is a book of examples of human behavior you can see
it shows a way how you can look at the behavior of humans
the freewill depens on something else made by thoughts of lifestyle
what feel good is a free movement of life
you have to done some thinking about the brain and all sort of things
where you can put questions on

not easy to explain with words

you have also something related to that work of the psychologist
the lucifer experiment

it's an experiment done on teachers where they can press a button and electro choque students
more like how blind can some follow orders, something

me personnaly don't give value to information in books or information on the internet
life is something natural and not easy explainable
the free will is always there
how you want to interpretade life, look at things, make your own mind and thoughts about it
even if it difference from other peoples 'normal' thoughts about life

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Free Will ironically is a fundamental doctrine of even the most authoritarian of religions. Free Will is simple to explain at any level, be it sociocultural, political, individual, internal, religious, metaphysical, scientific or cosmological..

Life is like a video game. The parameters are all pre-programed by various circumstances at any level of analysis or perspective you prefer. We are completely free to make any and every decision, but our outcomes are entirely preconceived, even if at random, by the circumstances and the parameters. Just as we are free as 4 dimensional beings to move our hands in time and space, but at the same time fundamental forces such as gravity entirely determine the parameters of every infinitely possible movement..

The Church teaches similar, but replaces gravity with God

but neo can break the rules of the game altogether, right brother morpheus?

[jon boy]

is free willy a myth?

 

[RanaldoNecro]

You need the means to practice your free will. Someone like Megan McCain had the resources to write a book and do other things such as that.

A person from a low income house has less free will. But even if you you have free will you still have to deal with others that are going to hold you back.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by RanaldoNecro

A person from a low income house has less free will.

Wow. What a cunt of a thing to say.

[gast30]

people can be manipuled by parents, lessons giving by schools, friends, internet, tv, religion, massa thinking, pressure from society, oppresion

the thread i have on 'illigal baby's in the us is one that
got me thinking of people born in the usa and maybe taken away the right to vote

and so i start on that explaining that all lifeforms are the same
or energy or startdust how you would like to call life as human

the issue is catogorising people as
people 1 and people 2
like there is a difference
while you know there is no

same as with elements like the tabel of mendeljef
you have the element iron
it's iron
it's not iron 1 or iron 2
it's yust iron
the same for all orther elements
people = people
and not people 1 or people 2

so if you look at people and going to make a difference
like people 1 and people 2
then is this manipulated by an influence
is it free will?

the same for gay people
gay straight or bisexual
is it people 1 or is it people 2?

my freewill knows that there is no difference
and it's the same lifeform, energy, startdust as me

so i don't have this people 1 and people 2 vieuw
even if you are a moviestar, a rockstar or what ever
it's my free will

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but neo can break the rules of the game altogether, right brother morpheus?

only a force outside of the game can break the rules, and many people are divided as to the existence of such a force so we can't really speak on it accurately. however free will easily remains aside from it, but it is indeed interesting to analyze the levels of interaction between situational circumstance and individual accountability and decision. What in these instances then is the degree of individual accountability and responsibility?

[the ikara cult]

in my opinion... yah dude

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

I'd like to believe that yes, there is free will to an extent.

Now it's not unlimited freedom. . . I can't suddenly morph into any animal I want and then shoot laser beams out of my eyes.

But I'd like to think that the things I choose to do within the constraints of my corporeal body are my choices and not just some long series of action-reactions that could all be figured out with a future deterministic computer.

[atari 2600]

1/11/11

sonic evol

all

[EVOLghost]

yeah....a myth in yer butt.

[RanaldoNecro]

Wow. What a cunt of a thing to say.

Some people have more opportunities growing up. Less struggles with school and work placements.

Sounds like a fact of a thing to say Glice.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by RanaldoNecro

Wow. What a cunt of a thing to say.

Some people have more opportunities growing up. Less struggles with school and work placements.

Sounds like a fact of a thing to say Glice.

Fuck off.

Free will is available to everyone or it is not available at all. It is not afforded at the moment you cross the threshold between dog scrabbling in bin to landed gentry. Freedom, should it happen to exist, isn't reducible to some economic commodity to be abandoned when your Ponzi scheme collapses, taking your kids' trust fund with it.

I come from a poor background and I just think this idea that poorer people are 'less free' because the big bad economy made them so is precisely the kind of HORSESHIT that middle-class people trot out so they can continue surrounding themselves with Rothko prints, attending pottery classes and vainglorious patronisation of ethnic minorities.

Yes, poor people don't have the opportunities that richer people do. THAT is a fact. That has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the metaphysical or epistemological status of free will. It does suggest a strong whiff of being a patronising cunt though.

[Keeping It Simple]

Is Genteel Death a myth?