[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

and it's people like my family, friends, and i's fault
tradition is dead, open your fucking eyes
people are dying because of our ignorance
and not just in foreign countries, but on our own soil too
thousands (maybe millions) of americans go unheard and uncared for
why would anyone think the war in iraq was a good idea???

what's wrong with you?

[Cardinal Rob]

The title of this thread has resonated in my head all day. It's just so true and awesome that someone from America has the guts to say it.

If you want some extensive reading, feel free to ask.

[floatingslowly]

cypto is no longer a red state color guard?

I sense a great disturbance in the force....

[pbradley]

Talk about old news.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by cryptowonderdruginvogue

why would anyone think the war in iraq was a good idea???

I'm not sure it was a good idea, but I also can't say it wasn't. Nobody, except people in possession of crystal balls or psychic powers, will really know for several years. History will eventually tell us if more good or more bad came from this.

But consider this:

1. Saddam Hussein used force to invade Kuwait, thus leading to the first gulf war.

2. In the wake of the first gulf war, the UN (not the US) imposed sanctions on Iraq, which included submitting to weapons inspections.

3. For years, Iraq refused to comply with these sanctions while making an effort to convince the world it had weapons of mass destruction. This is the same country that had committed acts of genocide and torture.

If we had allowed the status quo to remain in the Middle East, then what would have happened? (I have no idea.) Aren't we responsible for the result of our inactions? To at least a certain extent, I believe we are.

This is a long term problem with no simple solution. My belief is that the middle east needs to become prosperous. At least some of this religious fanaticism would disappear if these people had jobs and lived comfortably. Maybe democracy can be the first step towards making that happen.

[ThePits]

The UN weapons inspectors constantly complained they were not given enough time and were making progress over inspections

My country sent us to war on the basis of lies

"missiles capable of being deployed in 45 minutes that presented a threat to the United Kingdom"

Iraq didnt even have any scuds left and it was well documented they did not have ICBM's, the type of missile necessary to reach the UK from Iraq

Even the very legality over the second invasion of Iraq is hotly contested

This was a war about oil, more money for Bush and his oil funded party and cronies

To our eternal shame we went along with the lies like a little lapdog

The only thing left is to make sure lying scheming politicians are never allowed to do this again

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by ThePits

The UN weapons inspectors constantly complained they were not given enough time and were making progress over inspections

That may have been true by the time they were finally allowed in, but how many years did it take to get to that point? 8? 10?

I fault George Bush for the way he got us into the war. He should not have based it on evidence of WMD's. By the time we invaded Iraq, Saddam Hussein had been on "parole" for previous crimes and the burden was on him to report to his "parole officers," the UN inspectors. He hadn't reported to them for years, so proof of WMD's (real or fabricated) was irrelevant.

I guess Bush felt the need to play politics and cite WMD evidence to gain support for the war. I think he's a terrible leader, but that has little to do with whether this war will ultimately result in more good or bad.

[ThePits]

The weapons inspectors were allowed in on numerous occasions and frequently kicked out as well when US inspectors started using weapons inspections as a cheap way of gathering intelligence on non WMD matters

In fact the inspections prior to the second gulf war indicated that Iraq was complying with WMD disposal

Hussein could never openly admit he had no way to defend his country for fear of a second war with Iran which he would certainly have lost

Further, didnt it strike anyone as odd in the first gulf war that despite satellites, spies and dedicated special forces teams covertly inserted into Iraq, that noone found a single scud missile or launcher?

A briefing held just before the second invasion of Iraq by a Lieutenant Colonel to the officers and senior NCO's of a British infantry Battalion was started with the words "Forget about weapons of mass destruction, you are just about to take part in the biggest theft in the world. We are going to steal an oil field"

That said it all

[ThePits]

I forgot one point

Iraqs constant breaches of UN resolutions have always been cited as justification for the second invasion

Colin Powell stated "Military action was justified by Iraq's violation of 12 years of U.N. resolutions,"

Why then hasn't the USA been so keen to invade Israel who has been in breach of resolutions going back to the League of Nations days in the 1950's as well as numerous UN resolutions going back dozens of years!

Why arent UN inspectors sent in to inspect Israels now well documented stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons?

Oh silly me, no oil..........

[lungfish]

Originally Posted by cryptowonderdruginvogue

and it's people like my family, friends, and i's fault
tradition is dead, open your fucking eyes
people are dying because of our ignorance
and not just in foreign countries, but on our own soil too
thousands (maybe millions) of americans go unheard and uncared for
why would anyone think the war in iraq was a good idea???

what's wrong with you?

it's a shame.
but you're one of the other millions of Americans that actually realize this malady.
athough we don't outweigh the clueless, it counts for something.

[lungfish]

Originally Posted by Diesel

you don't outweigh the europeans thats for sure

i'm speaking of the Americans that agree with Europeans. We wouldn't have to outweigh you.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Diesel

cash rules everyting around me c.r.e.a.m dolR DOLLr bush ya'll

figured out I went the wrong route, so I got with a sick ass crew and went all out.

there is no fucking way in hell that this thread wasn't simply created to stir up Bees!

seriously. who has this particular epiphany RIGHT NOW.

shit's been wrong for a long time, and it's not just the US.

things may indeed be under more scrupulous control elsewhere, but today's problems are going to seem like Happy Days compared to what may come for the entire planet.

personally, I'm jumping ship. gawd told me to build an Ark.

http://www.okspaceport.state.ok.us/


now to get the Yamamoto off of the sea floor so that I may begin my construction...

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by ThePits

Why arent UN inspectors sent in to inspect Israels now well documented stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons?

Oh silly me, no oil..........

To justify sending our military into another country, there are at least two conditions that have to be met:

1. It is morally justified
2. It serves our national interest (which may include humanitarian causes)

For that reason, we can't be the world's police in every situation.

As far as our national interests are concerned, do you really think the only difference between Israel and Iraq is oil? If Israel had oil, do you believe we would overthrow their government?

[drrrtyboots]

Our country has a problem with everything. We're fucked! Completely!

[xxxjennyx]

Yeah I was just in Europe and I noticed all sorts of people from all different countries reppin themselves at like the festival I went to. I thought for a sec, 'gosh, I'd be totally ashamed to put the US flag on me right now...' and that's sad. I feel like the US flag is synonomous with wearing cowboy boots and a cross around your neck. ..... oh and also synonomous with killing people and making enemies abroad. Damn.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

You can't really bitch at us, becuz what the fuck have you done to help?
But I will say that being American doesn't make me proud.

[davenotdead]

exactly, all the 99 other countries (or however many there are) do is sit on their asses and bitch and moan...and watch our entertainment, and use all of our American inventions....except China, they actually work...it'll be funny when China is the #1 country in the world and everyone starts learning some Mandarin so they can bitch to China...

[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

i never blamed you.
i said myself, my family, and friends are to blame.

[samuel]

I like the US of A.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

I never understood why we were called American. I mean America is two continents.