[chairman of the bored]

Ever find a band that you adore, and are convinced are absolutely original, and later discover their rather clear influences? For me it was Boredoms...then I heard NEU! (and other krautrocksters) and Einsturzende Neubaten (and other avant-noisey types)...it doesn't detract from my love of Boredoms...just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience with different bands. Or know where neu and neubaten got their sounds from...

[GeneticKiss]

-Nine Inch Nails...Skinny Puppy was doing that stuff ten years earlier, and better

Maybe that's not quite in the same ballpark, but it's the first thing that came to my mind...

Neu! and Einsturzende Neubaten were bands that actually had the balls to experiment, so their sounds were largely original.

Today's avant garde experimentalism is tomorrow's Top 40.

[Dead-Air]

I've always thought that Neubauten were likely influenced by some of Can's more rhythmic stuff (I'm thinking particularly some of the tribal influenced beats on Tago Mago). Kraftwerk is also a very likely direct ancestor (while their "Autobahn" is not exactly a cover of the Kraftwerk song, it is certainly on some level a tribute or at least a comment on it).

They were also very clearly influenced by the Dada art movement in general and by a lot of avant garde music that wasn't connected to the pop music world that they somehow invaded through post punk. In paticular Stockhausen and the Futurists (the turn of the 20th Century Italian ancestors of all industrial and noise music!), and also likely Harry Partch. I'm just making an educated guess, but I'd think Cr@ss had to be one of EN's most direct punk rock ancestors.

Neu! like most of the Krautrock bands also drew influences directly from non-popular music forms, specifically avant garde clasical, but also jazz, and eastern music. Nonetheless, I don't think they would ever have been playing rock based music at all if it weren't for the '60 psychedelic music, and the Velvet Underground. When they split from Kraftwerk and called themselves Neu! that was a deliberate pop art reference that certainly brings to mind the VU/Warhol connection.

So yeah, nothing exists in a vacuum. The most original experimenters in rock usually lift from other genres to be more original (Jello Biafra details pretty thoroughly in RE/Search's Incredibly Strange Music how a lot of DK's music was based on obscure lounge records from the '50s!)

[pbradley]

I thought Sonic Youth were way absolutely original, and then I heard Cheap Trick.

[alteredcourse]

GeneticKiss .. For me NIN sounded way more like The Cure than anything else, though I'm a NIN fan (:P to Dead-Air) and have heard a lot of positive evolution with them through that era and into others.

[alteredcourse]

This is a rad topic by the way, dont you worry....
I dont know...I actually really love when I can sorta 'spot the influence', because it means there is something more i can sink into...yeah it can bother when it seems like that band you really dug was actually shaving way too close to the other's skin though,
cant think of anything at the moment .

Well, Maybe tool's early stuff. Sounds like they'd like to be swans.

[atsonicpark]

That happens, sure, but whatever. Everyone's influenced by everything they hear, even the bad stuff. As long as bands don't outright rip off other bands. I dunno. So, to answer your question, yes all the time.

It doesn't bother me much. I was listening to Broadcast's 'We've Got Time' recently, and the melody is lifted wholesale off the Mort Garson' 'Sagitarius' track. That isn't a surprising thing for them to do, since they're massive fans. Often I like songs that cite others directly too, something that some hip-hoppers are particularly good at. I still love both the tracks, so whatever. Some people are good at ripping off, other aren't.

[fugazifan]

i could name at least six stereolab songs that they took directly from neu! and another 1 from can. but they still write awesome songs, so the fuck if i care....
i think SY was like that for me. i had never heard anything like it, then i did. Sy are still amazing, but they are not as original as people think theyu are. i think thats why people always say that my band sounds like SY, because thats their only frame of reference, and not the more obscure or less known bands that we listen to.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

i could name at least six stereolab songs that they took directly from neu! and another 1 from can. but they still write awesome songs, so the fuck if i care....
i think SY was like that for me. i had never heard anything like it, then i did. Sy are still amazing, but they are not as original as people think theyu are. i think thats why people always say that my band sounds like SY, because thats their only frame of reference, and not the more obscure or less known bands that we listen to.

Well, be fair, you're posting on a Sonic Youth board right now. Chances are you are a pretty serious fan, and so the influence is rather inevitable. You also play in a guitar band that plays noisy tonal music, so the comparison would be inevitable even if you claimed to hate SY. They are certainly the world's frame of reference for that type of sound, as they have popularized it more than anyone else.

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

Well, be fair, you're posting on a Sonic Youth board right now. Chances are you are a pretty serious fan, and so the influence is rather inevitable. You also play in a guitar band that plays noisy tonal music, so the comparison would be inevitable even if you claimed to hate SY. They are certainly the world's frame of reference for that type of sound, as they have popularized it more than anyone else.

i think thats my point excactly. and im also reffering to our newer material. and SY is definatly an influence. but id like to think thats there is a lot more behind what we do. but poeple hear noisy guitars and think SY, without knowing that they are not the first band to do that...i think thats my point. biut iove been on the phone for the last half hour trying to talk to someone at my cellphone company, and it has become near impossible, so i might be rambling a bit

[Green Magnesium]

I was really getting into the Decemberists (once I got passed the lead singer's voice). Then I started reading/hearing claims that they are a total rip-off of Neutral Milk Hotel.. who I had never heard of previously. Now after listening to both bands' work.... I do NOT like NMH and I do still like Decemberists.

There are other instances where I enjoy a newer band more than the band that supposedly inspired them:

Example: I love Stereolab and I do NOT like 98% of Krautrock.

Decemberists actually sound more like Fleetwood Mac than anything. Maybe if Neutral Milk Hotel had been a Fleetwood Mac cover band... we would have had the Decemberists.

I think people are just too preoccupied with labeling stuff and comparing it to past work/artists. It usually doesn't bother me too much unless (like someone already said) the act in question is a COMPLETE rip-off/homage to a previous artist.

Example: Fleetwood Mac's first year as a "blues" band does nothing for me because it sounds like every other white boy "blues" band. Not until they added Danny Kirwan in '68, and started exploring other sounds, did they really take off, imo.

[narlus]

i really liked Kid Rock until i discovered Skynyrd and Warren Zevon.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

i think thats my point excactly. and im also reffering to our newer material. and SY is definatly an influence. but id like to think thats there is a lot more behind what we do. but poeple hear noisy guitars and think SY, without knowing that they are not the first band to do that

people do nto remember who did things FIRST
they remember who did it BEST

and since SY has been doing it better than anyone else since 1981, that is a fair assumption for music fans to make don;t you think?