[Glice]

So I've had one of my evenings of trying to keep up with what's going on on soundcloud. I've found quite a few things that've piqued my interest. This is me in music binge mood. As there's a shitload of stuff on there, I've been very much listening to a bit, getting an idea of what they're doing, scanning through tracks. Trying to get through a load of stuff and bookmarking all the stuff that's potentially interesting, which I'll listen to properly tomorrow. I say 'transient' because it's perfectly possible, what with the internet and all, to do this for days on end - just a constant state of 'stuff I haven't heard before'.

Within this binge, I'm constantly aware - and not at all bothered by the fact that - what piques my interest will probably be stuff that fits into something like 'pre-conceived' (but by no means entirely present-to-consciousness) 'likes' of mine. This is potentially quite limiting, but again, I'm not bothered by that. I don't listen to myspazz because it's got a million bands that really 'aren't my sort of thing at all'. I don't listen to a lot of DJ sets/ dance music on soundcloud because I'm more interested in listening to established DJs - so something like Dubstepforums or Rinse.FM is ideal for that. DJs of most stripes tend to limit themselves to a few sorts of music, and specialise in that. They do that so I don't have to.

So the first 'how to listen to music', in terms of approach to finding 'new' stuff, is the (transient) binge - you listen to a cuntload of things and filter through them later (if you want) or just keep pushing through. I mention DJs because they seem more on the fetish side of things - they listen to one or two sorts of music and act as a kind of editor for their listeners.

Earlier this year, I was restricting my listening fairly heavily - trying to listen to mostly classical stuff, or Dubstep when I was writing/ reading. Part of the reason for that was academic - I wanted to get a better sense of the transition from early to baroque to classical (etc) - but in terms of 'how to listen' I was making a fetish of a few narrow areas of music and trying to explore them in a little more depth. So spending a day listening exclusively to one composer, often the same record 3 or 4 times a day, following the score where possible. This seems a much more fetishised way of listening - trying to explore a limited area, focussing on a minimal field, getting up to speed on biography and composition. I don't think that sort of thing gets you necessarily any closer to the music or composer, but it's something that interests me.

Yeah, so, basically, I'm interested in whether people think the new media available to us has very much changed how we listen to music. I know there's always been a million bands that you don't get a chance to listen to, but the access to that was extremely limited. I hate sounding like an old fucker - especially with so many people here who simply weren't about in the era of buying a record and forcing yourself to like it because you wouldn't be able to hear another record until you'd saved up for one. But you'd listen very differently.

Just as an aside to that, I reckon that the new media has been just as good for the post-25 generation as it has for those born into the internet era - in that I know a lot of people who, classically, would've just given up on music when mortgages, cars and kids come along because music simply stops being a priority.

I mean, obviously we listen to music differently, and I think very few people invested in it never download (and that's a very different issue), but I'm wondering if people are consciously aware of their decisions and personal relationships to exploring music. How do we find new music? How do we listen? I'm not really interested in qualitative distinctions ('it's better to sit and really concentrate') but just how people cope with the baffling enormity of coping with quite how much music is out there.

tl;dr - last sentence is probably most important.

NB - I would apologise for the self-indulgent post, but you lot are some of the most hatefully self-obsessed cunts I've ever had the misfortune to sit and read the bleating, ameliorated tosscuntery of.

[Toilet & Bowels]

i guess one thing is that it's only really thanks to the internet that i'm even aware of the baffling enormity of how much music there is out there.


i don't really have a distict answer to this (your thoughts, not what i just said), although it is something that i cast my mind over from time to time wondering if these days i give particular bits of music the time they deserve, and then thinking in light of the amount of music out there does each thing deserve any actual amount from the listener anyway.
i'm glad i grew up in the era of having to listen to the handful of records i owned, but also i'm glad i then gained access to the internet and was able to check out things i'd heard about but was not likely to blow money on ( particularly krautrock, japanese stuff, noise, metal, and minimalism) as the world of music you could hear about through reference but not have access to actually hear can be as baffling and trepidatious as hearing anything you want instantaneously.
so.... i guess the point is is that i don't approach particular bits of music as determindly as i once might have done, and i may tend to fall into the habit of listening to the types of things i already know i like (of which there seems to be a near infinite supply), but also being an enthusiast this doesn't satify my curiosity so i still find myself looking into corners that i'm not familiar with, or haven't paid attention to for a while. What I mean is that (for me0 before the internet, listening to new music could be a fairly self-conciously determined thing where as now maybe it is more intuitive as whatever peaks your curiosity can be heard immediately and if it leaves an impression you can come back to it just as easily.


In short: Apples and Oranges.

[demonrail666]

I have a passing interest in new currents that're taking place on the margins, but tend to wait until a few 'key' widely discussed examples begin to cross over before I dip my toe. Then, if I like it I might explore it in more detail. I don't 'search' for new things though. My experience is that the interesting stuff tends to reveal itself to me, either through an interview in a magazine, an online recommendation from someone whose taste I trust, etc.

My default setting, though, is to explore already established artists that I've not yet heard, working in genres that I know I like.

[Phlegmscope]

I became more enthusiastic about music when I was around 16 - 17 and by that time the file sharing culture was already there, not as widespread as today, but still. So I never really experienced the social word of mouth aspect of finding music. Especially when none of my friends were particularly outspoken about music.
Internet solely got me interested in shit (not literally).

But my enthusiasm has been periodical. after the initial interest I obviously hoarded stuff on my computer and bought stuff whenever I could. And that lasted some years, during which my album collection grew from few to few hundred. Since then it's been kind of slowing down. Partly because I started school and had to make decisions between records and alcohol.
These days I get really excited about things infrequently and don't spend most of my time thinking about music. I rarely buy albums, because I have to watch my spending (and I still have albums I haven't even listened). I'm not one of those atsonicpark type of people who constantly go through (downloads) huge amounts of stuff and make lists.

It's true that the sheer amount of things in the internet might be a drawback in someways as it might become a burden or chore to check out as much things as possible (if you're the completist kind of person). obviously no one has enough time to listen to all that material thoroughly.
You dig something, you buy the album... and there's still tons of similar and just as interesting things left to find. I kind of feel bad if I just download everything and then give it a one go. I don't anymore feel the need to explore every genre like some years ago, but I'm glad that nowadays it's possible if I want.

Lately I've been discovering music via Spotify, which these days has surprising amount of things (not thurstonmooreapproved c-cassette black metal though). I've been using it to form a playlist for later reminder. A bit easier as you don't have to fill up yr hard drive and it's already organized.

[Green_mind]

How long have we been able to actually stream music online? I think that's a relatively new advancement isn't it, (discounting sites like youtube, myspace, soundclick, etc) compared to p2p file sharing sites.

I never liked p2p software, especially with all the junk and corrupt files, but with streaming (sites like spotify and grooveshark) allowing you to have instant access to a wide range of music and allows you to create huge playlists has really appealed to me these last couple of years.

[Derek]

I am part of the internet generation but I didn't explore filesharing until a few years after my initial record buying fetish. When I finally started using soulseek religiously, I thought there was an oversaturation of music for me to listen to and it was definitely hard to develop a bond with mp3s in the way I did with the CDs I spent ages saving up for.

However, the basest of my taste has depended on the internet really, and that led to a new record collection blossoming.

The sheer amount of music out there is a tad daunting and it is saddening that I won't be able to experience all the music that I could possibly enjoy.

[Toilet & Bowels]

I thought the title of this thread was going to be the title of some rubbish Goa Trance mix CD glice was trying to foist on us.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

I thought the title of this thread was going to be the title of some rubbish Goa Trance mix CD glice was trying to foist on us.

Goa Trance is rubbish. I think it'd make a nice post-ironic partner for your post-ironic moustache.

[Glice]

Iconic means 'utterly shit' in Greek, right?

[finding nobody]

I enjoyed your post.
When I turned about 13 I became completely obsessed with a few different bands. I mean really obsessed.. My only friend made fun of me. Haha.. But point being, I dug these bands so much I wanted to know more about them. I wanted to know what music they found inspiring and so on. So, I read all the interviews on the internet and like the young and bushy tailed boy I was, I took great value in their words and listened to a lot of what they said about their favorite/life changing tunes. So, I researched more and downloaded more till I found 37580936 different bands that I find really interesting.
I started illegal downloading around that time too. From Limewire, to Kazaa, to Bear Share, and now I use Soulseek and Torrents. But, I still looooooooove going to my local record store and buy an album by a band I've never heard an album by before. (I bought my first blonderedhead album recently, not having heard them hardly at all before.)
Nirvana (which lead me to Sonic Youth, MDC, Pixies, The Raincoats, Leadbelly ect.) and White Stripes (which lead to a lot of fucking blues)
But anyways, I've done this sense then and surrounded myself with 700 cds, about 150 gigs of music on this computer, a few hundred records ect. And am still digging to this day.
I listen to one full length album and then put on another album by another band on after that, usually. But, every now and then I'll just go apeshit on one artist. Not long ago I went on a crazy Toots and The Maytals marathon.
And.. I know for a fact my tastes would differ very much had I been been born about 15-20 years earlier. I'm grateful for the internet.

[chicka]

I started at 12 years old ripping off vinyl every week at the local Kings store (a former chain like say Target). At first a lot of my likes were because of peer pressure as I grew older this changed. The only must I have is to make sure to listen more than once. Today I find all my new music in this file so in sense it's become a full circle back to peer pressure.
Only music I can't take for longer that 2 songs at a time is heavy/trash/speed metal. I can listen to country music, or rap, or classical, or opera, or pop for hours on end but not metal.

[Rob Instigator]

I have not bought any music in over 6 months.
I have not even gone into the record stores, or looked through the used records bins.
I have not downloaded or checked out any music online in that long too.

I own so many records and 7" singles that I feel bad not paying enough attention to the music I already own instead of getting more more more....

I remember in the early 90's how many bands started releasing anything they could put on tape, instead of calculating what best songs would fit on an album to then push that great collection of songs...Lots of music press people seemed to be concerned that what was happening is that bands were releasing half-assed music creating a generation of half -assed music fans. Others did not seem to care, and appreciate dit as a way to release music that would otherwise be buried on B-sides or compilations, or "discovered" decades later on bootlegs.

I can see both sides.

My main issue with the bulk of what is easily available online is that it is what I term "candy" music. Like candy, it tastes supa delicious upon first listen, then the sweetness wears off, and you notice that it is just one strong flavor. This is not a bad thing but it does not benefit from repeated experience.
I prefer my treats and music to be comprised of many different flavors/notes to be discovered and savored in due time as I live alongside my music.

Has the new technology made it too easy to release a good idea as a song instead of developing a GREAT song based on that good idea?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I own so many records and 7" singles that I feel bad not paying enough attention to the music I already own instead of getting more more more....

While I've not taken your route of stopping buying new records altogether, I can entirely relate to what you're saying. Looking at my CD shelves right now, I'd say a good 80% of what's there I've hardly listened to enough to reach any kind of valid opinion on them. Some i've not even listened to all the way through.

[Rob Instigator]

then again that Santana's Greatest Hits I found for $2 can stay on the shelf for fucking ever.....goddamn it is BORING

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Green_mind

I never liked p2p software, especially with all the junk and corrupt files, but with streaming (sites like spotify and grooveshark) allowing you to have instant access to a wide range of music and allows you to create huge playlists has really appealed to me these last couple of years.

I think streaming is a really crucial development - in a way, it's brought back the concept behind radio without being quite so dominating and definitive. I also think it's sort of been neglected in a lot of musical discussions - it's ostensibly quite close to general internet things (p2p, blogs, webzines etc) while offering a lot less in the way of active searching. I love the radio, still, and I spend quite a bit of time listening to it simply because I'd rather hear something someone else has picked out to play. And while I got irritated by Spotify, Pandora and the like quite quickly, from what I can gather they're offering quite a lot for listeners out there. I don't think it'll save the industry, but it's surprising how many people are happy paying for the services.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I have a passing interest in new currents that're taking place on the margins, but tend to wait until a few 'key' widely discussed examples begin to cross over before I dip my toe. Then, if I like it I might explore it in more detail. I don't 'search' for new things though. My experience is that the interesting stuff tends to reveal itself to me, either through an interview in a magazine, an online recommendation from someone whose taste I trust, etc.

I feel like this in some cases. Certainly, when it comes to a lot of the indie/ guitar side of things I tend to wait a long time before dipping into it. I'd say it's largely because I have an awful lot of that stuff already, and I'm a bit jaded towards it. I think it's a case that guitar music defined a good 10 or so years of my life, and I'm not really too concerned to keep up with it. When it comes to a lot of world traditions though, I really like that I can find a wikipedia article on, say, pipa music and I can go out and get myself some sort of hotch-potch sampler from slsk and blogs. Familiarity breeds contempt, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Nefeli

the fact that there always gonna be an underground (thurstons fav quote) and the fact that i have better chances to find out about it, relaxes me.

I think, for me, the notion of the underground has changed radically to what it was. I feel a bit like 'underground' was definitely meaningful when I was at school, feeling like I was part of some secret society with my obscure 7"s (which likely weren't that obscure). Now I feel that there's so much stuff out there that having that idea of a 'top' and a 'bottom' to music simply isn't useful - it's as easy to appreciate some band from somewhere you'll never visit as it is a band who are on a small indie in a rich country.

In those sorts of terms, I really like how there are a lot of people who press CDrs and tapes solely for their mates - I have loads of these, and in some cases I wish they were better known (the non-ferric memories CDr I got the other week is brilliant) and in more cases they're better off not being known, but either way it's really nice to feel like it's a present, from one person to another, rather than part of a career trajectory.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

My main issue with the bulk of what is easily available online is that it is what I term "candy" music. Like candy, it tastes supa delicious upon first listen, then the sweetness wears off, and you notice that it is just one strong flavor. This is not a bad thing but it does not benefit from repeated experience.

I think there's a definite sense that, at the business end of the industry, tunes have got more mercenary, more sparkly in a bid to excite the listener. It's difficult though, because I'd maintain that the Lady Gaga album is a really good example of how to make a brilliant record - it's instantly catchy (although I stupidly took a year to get into it) but worth repeated listens. I wonder if the 'candy' music is one of those chicken/ egg situations - do we treat it as 'candy' because it is candy or because we know that if we don't listen to it extensively there'll still be another million bands clamouring for our attention?

Just as an aside to that last bit, I can't actually think of the last time I heard something that offended me, musically. Ok, so it was probably whatever shit I saw on TV tonight, or last time I listened to radio 2, but generally speaking I'm in control of what music I listen to. When someone posts a thread here, I'll usually skim through it and decide based on descriptions whether I can be bothered to open a link. I don't feel bad about that, and I think most people are like that.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Has the new technology made it too easy to release a good idea as a song instead of developing a GREAT song based on that good idea?

I think there's far more of a premium on studio time now. I've heard exactly that from producer mates. But again, it's a two-sided thing - on the one hand, you don't get overblown cod-'masterpieces' (Oasis' 3rd springs to mind); on the other, someone like Beefheart wouldn't get a look in now. I can't see any reason why the majority of bands really need a lot of time to polish their work (beyond some basic production things that aren't hugely expansive). The problem is that I'm sure there are a tiny minority of bands who would benefit from that who probably aren't getting a look in.

[Phlegmscope]

Originally Posted by Glice

And while I got irritated by Spotify, Pandora and the like quite quickly, from what I can gather they're offering quite a lot for listeners out there. I don't think it'll save the industry, but it's surprising how many people are happy paying for the services.

Even though I use spotify daily, I'm not necessarily ready to pay for it, right now, at least. I can deal with the commercials that come with the spotify open... at least I get a glimpse of the new avenged sevenfold etc atrocity.
The redeeming factor of spotify is the huge range of music they've managed to cram into it, also out of print stuff. However, it seems to limit to record labels ranging from medium to huge, or to bands somewhat established.

Not sure if they can keep it going though. At least about a year ago they were still relying on funding and not making much profit, I think. Whole another discussion is the ethics of it. Apparently they are basically screwing the artist. Not sure if spotify actually generates any records sales.