[Rob Instigator]

people say "We should all pray for the families of so-and-so. It's the least we can do."

I want to scream at their fucking smug faces, "YES! YES IT IS INDEED THE VERY LEAST YOU CAN DO! And that is all you WILL do you fucking sanctimonious hypocrite FUCK!!!!"

If everyone that solely prayed would get off their fucking asses and DO something, even something as tiny and seemingly insignificant as writing an email to a victim of trauma to let them know you care. THAT is a hundred times more beneficial and godly than a fucking prayer.

fuck religion. fuck it all to hell.

All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions make me sick
All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions suck
They all claim that they have the truth
That'll set you free
Just give 'em all your money and they'll set you free
Free for a fee

They all claim that they have 'the Answer'
When they don't even know the Question
They're just a bunch of liars
They just want your money
They just want your consciousness

All religions suck
All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions suck
All religions make me wanna BLEAH

They really make me sick
They really make me sick
They really make me sick
They really make me sick
They really make me sick
The really make me ill.

[tesla69]

We're all praying for you, Rob. Its the least we can do.

[Rob Instigator]

indeed.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

Rob, aren't you old enough to be a bit more empathetic to other people? You can be on your atheist FTW trip, that's cool, but why be such a dick about it? You can rant and rave against missionaries, evangelicals, people knocking on your door with literature, but seriously, the cultural act of "praying for someone" when sincere transcends religions. You should be old enough by now to understand what that really means, it means, "I will be thinking dearly of you, sympathizing and empathizing with what you are experiencing." Yes, there is are some glib, bullshit prayers in thrown around as PR and spin in the media/politics, but when people on the street, in your family, at your job, in your community tell you sincerely, "I will pray for you" at least respect their fond feelings for you, and recognize that while you may not agree with their religion, you should at least appreciate that somebody in the world is thinking of you in a fond and sympathetic way rather then being a little boy and kicking people in the shins with some middle school punk rock lyrics. meh.

[!@#$%!]

i agree with rob... as william blake put it: "as the plow follows words, so god rewards prayers"

(hilarious)

anyway--- rob, i hope you alright?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

!@#$%!, I am not surprised at all that you agree with such middle school feelings. Again, y'all should grow up. When people are sincerely praying for each other, its not just an empty gesture, its a form of sympathy and empathy. ALL people should be kind enough to think about each other in sympathy and fondness from time to time, and this is what is meant by "praying for each other." Besides,w ould y'all yell those mean things to your grandmothers if they said they'd pray for you too?

[Rob Instigator]

I am great. Shit's just grating to me.

My wife and I always volunteer at various charities, where we think we can do some good. My wife yesterday went on a van tour of places being helped by a charity here in Houston that is working to help those victimized by human trafficking for the sex trade. She came home steaming hot, deeply offended by the way the tour "guides" described their work, and about how very little of it is actually about informing the public and helping those who suffer, and how much of it is the same-ol' "I can't do anything for you but let me save your soul!!!", and horrendous advice, such as, when they were at a very very seedy dangerous location, the guides told the group that if threatened by someone they should respond with "what, are you threatening me with heaven?" As if that will somehow quell some psycho's murderous impulse.

Just fucking tired of it all. Tired of the lies, the hypocrisy, the self-congratulation for what is basically a 2 hour diversion from their "normal" lives... It just makes me sick.

I help people. I jump in first thing, never worrying about myself, much to my wife's concern. She knows I am the first to run into traffic to help accident victims, the first to comfort and console those who have just lost someone, etc. I do not do this for rewards in this life nor in whatever supposed next life everyone keeps trying to brainwash themselves exists after death.

My wife and I do this at secular organizations, at religious organizations, and any place we can help. The religious ones are the FUCKING WORST. Seemingly 1/2 the volunteers are there to make themselves feel better about themselves. The other half seem to be "putting in their time" so that god, or jesus or whothefuckever notices, and marks it in their permanent record.

The few people like us, the ones who want to help because we know what it is like to not have anyone helping, we are all beaten down, worn out by the endless bullshit spewed by those who pretend to do good. They only make it harder to help others.

It is a sad shame

I have nothing against personal prayer. what I have deep rage against is people using prayer as some sort of fail-safe tool. Your individual relationship with whatever creator you wish to assign the universe to is your business. Trying to use your supplications to that creator as some sort of HELP makes me sick.

[Rob Instigator]

It is more important for these churches to advertise themselves than it is to help those they claim to help.

One more example. My wife works with a n outreach group that prepares sandwhich meals for poor kids to eat at school. The main concern with them is that the large, pretty sticker on the plastic bags (which reads "brought to you by so-and-so church!") is properly placed on the bag and that it is colorful and that it is neat-lloking. When asked by my wife why they take so much trouble and money to make these stickers as opposed to using that money for actually nutritious food for the kids, they had no answer, other than that is what "really" mattered. (two pieces of white bread, a squirt of mustard, and a slice of bologna is as far as they wish to go to actually feed the kids)

The indoctrination of the mind is more critical than the nutrition of the kid's body.

That is the issue.

at least businesses have a stated goal, to make money.

a church's goal is not to help, or to minister, it is to convert minds to their way of thinking. Mind Control is their primary intent. TRUST ME.

[Rob Instigator]

hey suchfriends, this was in no way an attack on you or on anyone who wishes to pray. and yes, I have asked my grandma what good her prayers will do. It was after repeated requests to pray for my dad who was slowly dying of cancer. I asked her exactly that, "what good would it do?" (this was about 22 years ago. I had quit on religion at age 12, about 5 years before))
she had no answer. May as well chant "Serenity Now" to myself over and over again.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Rob. You can't change peoples hearts by force of will, or the strength of your conviction, your the reality of what you are speaking. I agree with you completely, hypocrisy is horrifying. However, not ALL religious people or organizations or groups are as hypocritical an experience as your wife's recent experience.
Like I said, when people are sincerely praying for each other, they are directly thinking about each other, and thought is the first step to motivate people towards action. Only after they feel it, will they act on it. Prayer is a form of thinking, meditating, and reflecting about each other, and in that process, people are moved to action. Trust that. I've been witness to it for my entire life. Empty anger only creates those negative things you are against. Your attitude is not helpful, and did all that mean-spirited cursing honestly make you feel any better? Really?


Yes, again many religious people are indeed shamefully self-indulged hypocrites. I agree completely. However, I have also seen many sincere acts by these religious people as well. There are many ministries which are poor, hurting, or suffering peoples only life-line. The Orthodox Church is what helped close the Gulags, be they in Russia or Ethiopia. Te Catholic Church helped chase out those duppy genocidal military dictatorships in Central America. Priests, pastors, and genuinely religious people worked EVERY SINGLE DAY IN THE TRENCHES, IN THE COMMUNITY, JUST AS YOU ARE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO. You need to respect that. It is part of reality. Even if God is entirely a myth and organized religion a crafty ploy, many people on a daily basis do extreme good for each others having been moved by their faith. That is what you are not understanding. All those people may not have jumped off that bus and radically changed the situation. However, you can't know what that seed planted will produce inevitably in their hearts. In the future, those might be the strongest ally and actor towards solving those problems. However, your attitude is counter-productive. You need to focus on the hypocrisy itself, not focusing so much on those peoples faith or your own lack there-of. Accept that many people believe different things, and they shouldn't be a dick or hypocrite about it and neither should you. When you are telling people FUCK YOU and being all caustic, how is that constructive, how does that help any other person? You are free to vent. I vent here all the time. However, it is a common theme of yours across like the past ten years I've known your ass. Calm down. Hate God inside your heart all you'd like, curse religion every day, but try your best not to make it so personal against other people. You're not helping them, and you're not helping yourself.

[Rob Instigator]

true, just venting.

and it is not just a recent experience. I have dealt with it for nearly all of my 40 years.

I am fed up with it. I never said "fuck the religious" BTW. I say FUCK RELIGIONS.

[Rob Instigator]

and while you give decent advice suchfriends, it is the religious devout throughout the world that are the most adamant about MAKING IT PERSONAL. They will kill you because you bad mouth their imagined creator.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

and while you give decent advice suchfriends, it is the religious devout throughout the world that are the most adamant about MAKING IT PERSONAL. They will kill you because you bad mouth their imagined creator.

It could be said that those extremists, fundamentalists, and radicals aren't exactly the most religious, considering all such religions decry murder, violence, and scathing judgment. Don't mistake religion with (a) superstition or (b) thinly veiled politics or opportunism. The Taliban, Al Qaeda in Iraq, the Muslim Brotherhood, are all overtly politically motivated militant groups. While they are saturated with religious language, I think its safe to say many of their actions fall short of their own religion's humanistic goals. Further, its a chicken and egg matter, its hard to sort out what is truly motivating towards violence, a sincere religious hatred or the opportunity for gaining power or plunder in the name of religion? Of course, I generally agree with Marxists and other Historical Materialists who propose that economics and power more so than any particular ideology (of which constitutes religion) tend to be a more direct motivation behind peoples behaviors.

[Hip Priest]

We decry religions and capitalism for all the bad things; and while we do, socialism, atheism and enviromentalism are all becoming increasingly powerful vehicles for bigotry, bullying, hypocrisy and hatemongering. And people aren't noticing, because it is too easy to keep on blaming the old offenders.

[Rob Instigator]

because the "old offenders" are 90% of the power structure. That has not changed.

The vatican is a thousand plus year old organization with all the baggage and outdated morality that entails.

Believe me, religions notice only what they think will affect their control of their people.

[Hip Priest]

The problem is humans in groups, not the group. As soon as any group get a voice, they take on all the characteristics they pretended to despise previously.

Socialists join the most overtly bullying people, atheists join the most bigoted people and environmentalists become the most authoritarian. They abuse their position just as much as everyone else ever did.

And every group that gets a voice instantly decides that it has found this magical thing, a bigotry that's justified, a noble prejudice whose sounds must be rung. Take the speeches of many atheist or socialist leaders, replace the words 'capitalist' or 'religious' with 'homosexuals' or 'immigrants', and tell me it's not bigoted.

The same sentiments, the same delusion, the same hatred, the same bigotry.

[dead_battery]

the sheer dishonesty of suchfriends response that those murderers and extremists 'aren't REALLY religious' is an absolute embarrassment. it's on the same level as saying "those nazis that did the war and gas chambers weren't REAL nazis" or "those stalinist purge and holodomor guys weren't REALLY communist".

[Hip Priest]

I'm not defending what has been done in the name of religion, merely pointing out that none of the behaviour displayed is unique to religion.

And even if I were, I wouldn't be the only one refusing to accept that my hatred is the same vile filth as everyone else's hatred. Not by a long way.

[Hip Priest]

"Your bigotry bad, my Bigotry good" is the modern way.

"You must tolerate what I say, because it's my freedom of speech, but if I'm expected to tolerate your opinion then that is against my human rights."

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hip Priest again.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

the sheer dishonesty of suchfriends response that those murderers and extremists 'aren't REALLY religious' is an absolute embarrassment. it's on the same level as saying "those nazis that did the war and gas chambers weren't REAL nazis" or "those stalinist purge and holodomor guys weren't REALLY communist".

Whatever you say. Nazism was a political ideology which was actually veiled in esoteric pagan religious imagery, all I implied was that Al-Qaeda is the same kind of thing whereas Rob's assertion was that religion is the primary or sole motivation. I beg to differ. You can't negate political (power) and economic (money) influences behind ALL human behavior, especially that which is radical or violent.

Even the Crusades were largely a geopolitical and financial matter, hence why on the Third Crusade they skipped Jerusalem and the Muslims altogether and instead sacked their political rival, Byzantium. What was the Inquisition? A political response and retaliation to the political and economic threat of Protestantism. Those are my opinions. You don't have to rudely call me a liar or disingenuous simply because you disagree with my analysis.