[the ikara cult]

im waiting for opponents of the iraq war to explain what they think would have happened if the war hadnt happend. But yknow, you can always rely on comfortable people to throw around conspiracy theories before they speak to the reality of provincialism

As for the antidepressants thing, theres a whole literature on that and the antipsychiatry movement that implies nothing with regard to the war in iraq. But hey, people like to masturbate over being rebellious, especially if they dont have to face up to the consequences.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

im waiting for opponents of the iraq war to explain what they think would have happened if the war hadnt happend.

a lot more iraqis would still be alive? the middle east would be more stable?

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

a lot more iraqis would still be alive? the middle east would be more stable?

Saddam would still be torturing Iraqis and owning a country he had no claim to?
When he died or abdicated his two sons would have been involved in a power struggle? I hope i dont need to tell anyone about the kinds of people Uday and Qusay Hussain were.
Irans proxies would have become directly involved in the politics of the selction of a new dictator?
Turkey would have taken action against the Kurds (who by the by, never get listened to on this issue)?
The young people or Iran (50% of the population) would not feel that we support their struggle for a true democracy? This is not a central point, but a vital one nonetheless.

Most importantly, Saddam was not going to comply, we should have got rid of him in 1990 but we didnt. The fact the US was complicit in Saddams coming to power is not an arguement against removing him. Speak to some Iraqis about this, when i did their experiences made me shut the fuck up

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Saddam would still be torturing Iraqis and owning a country he had no claim to?
When he died or abdicated his two sons would have been involved in a power struggle? I hope i dont need to tell anyone about the kinds of people Uday and Qusay Hussain were.
Irans proxies would have become directly involved in the politics of the selction of a new dictator?
Turkey would have taken action against the Kurds (who by the by, never get listened to on this issue)?
The young people or Iran (50% of the population) would not feel that we support their struggle for a true democracy? This is not a central point, but a vital one nonetheless.

Most importantly, Saddam was not going to comply, we should have got rid of him in 1990 but we didnt. The fact the US was complicit in Saddams coming to power is not an arguement against removing him. Speak to some Iraqis about this, when i did their experiences made me shut the fuck up

Yes! Well put and good arguments.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Saddam would still be torturing Iraqis and owning a country he had no claim to?
When he died or abdicated his two sons would have been involved in a power struggle? I hope i dont need to tell anyone about the kinds of people Uday and Qusay Hussain were.
Irans proxies would have become directly involved in the politics of the selction of a new dictator?
Turkey would have taken action against the Kurds (who by the by, never get listened to on this issue)?
The young people or Iran (50% of the population) would not feel that we support their struggle for a true democracy? This is not a central point, but a vital one nonetheless.

Most importantly, Saddam was not going to comply, we should have got rid of him in 1990 but we didnt. The fact the US was complicit in Saddams coming to power is not an arguement against removing him. Speak to some Iraqis about this, when i did their experiences made me shut the fuck up

1. the country would most likely be stable presently because he ruled with an iron fist.
2. the crazier one would've killed the less crazy one.
3.who the fuck cares? besides iraqis of course
4. saddam fucked up the kurds too.
5. hahahahahaha
6. oh? lets just remove every dictator, THAT WON'T TAKE FOREVER...

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble

6. oh? lets just remove every dictator, THAT WON'T TAKE FOREVER...

If that happened eventually we'd have to remove ourselves.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

If that happened eventually we'd have to remove ourselves.

You're Gordon Brown? I don't think you should be so hard on yourself, you're not a dictator!

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble

1. the country would most likely be stable presently because he ruled with an iron fist.
2. the crazier one would've killed the less crazy one.
3.who the fuck cares? besides iraqis of course
4. saddam fucked up the kurds too.
5. hahahahahaha
6. oh? lets just remove every dictator, THAT WON'T TAKE FOREVER...

1. Honestly, say something like that to the face of a Kurdish person. See if you have the balls
2. True, then we have the crazier one in charge, at least try and imagine that situation.
3. Evidently not you
4. Some insight on your part, good to know youre trying at least
5. Yeah, fuck the Iranians, ha ha fucking ha.
6. The existence of one fascistic regime isnt an arguement against the removal of another. It has to be dealt with case by case, sometimes its do-able by supporting the democratic elements in that country, and sometimes that infrastructure doesnt exist.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

If that happened eventually we'd have to remove ourselves.

im laughing at you, not with you

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

im waiting for opponents of the iraq war to explain what they think would have happened if the war hadnt happend. .

there'd be a million Iraqi's still alive, not dead. There would be 4,000 of America's best still alive. We would have many hundred billion dollars that could be spent in the USA on US citizens instead of thrown away into the security-industrial complex and "rebuilding" one foreign country after another. Iraq wouldn't be a toxic waste site coated with Depleted Uranium.

its not too complicated.

[Crumb's Crunchy Delights]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

im waiting for opponents of the iraq war to explain what they think would have happened if the war hadnt happend.

ya dont have to wait

just read a book dumbass

or im sure there must be a wilipedia entry on the subject

[floatingslowly]

shortly after the first war, my parents moved to Kuwait.

they bought me a book full of Iraqi torture devices used on Kuwaiti citizens.

gruesome isn't a severe enough word. hell on earth, being three words, might do the trick.

when are a people worth saving, dear blue hearts?



"at least yr alive", says the torturer as he hooks yr nipples up to the car battery. "too bad yr children aren't". he spits and pulls the switch.

[knox]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Saddam would still be torturing Iraqis and owning a country he had no claim to?
When he died or abdicated his two sons would have been involved in a power struggle? I hope i dont need to tell anyone about the kinds of people Uday and Qusay Hussain were.
Irans proxies would have become directly involved in the politics of the selction of a new dictator?
Turkey would have taken action against the Kurds (who by the by, never get listened to on this issue)?
The young people or Iran (50% of the population) would not feel that we support their struggle for a true democracy? This is not a central point, but a vital one nonetheless.

Most importantly, Saddam was not going to comply, we should have got rid of him in 1990 but we didnt. The fact the US was complicit in Saddams coming to power is not an arguement against removing him. Speak to some Iraqis about this, when i did their experiences made me shut the fuck up

you spoke to the ones that are alive.
let's ask the dead ones.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

5. Yeah, fuck the Iranians, ha ha fucking ha.

sorry, i was laughing at the prospect of democracy in general. the iranians are cool.

[Rob Instigator]

iranian chick are HOT

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

iranian chick are HOT

yes.. all this news in Iran has been making me want to go there and pick up on some of these absolutely gorgeous young women! Persian chicks here in Los Angeles are not that beautiful, they set the wrong image about Iranians.. bring on more sexy protesters!

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

im waiting for opponents of the iraq war to explain what they think would have happened if the war hadnt happend. But yknow, you can always rely on comfortable people to throw around conspiracy theories before they speak to the reality of provincialism

As for the antidepressants thing, theres a whole literature on that and the antipsychiatry movement that implies nothing with regard to the war in iraq. But hey, people like to masturbate over being rebellious, especially if they dont have to face up to the consequences.

Saddam would have died an old, weak dictator in a country with moderate sectarian violence, as opposed being hung in outrage while thousands more Iraqis died (and continue to die) in the streets daily to EXTREME sectarian violence and millions of other Iraqis were chased out of Iraq going as far afield as Norway

Saddam would still be torturing Iraqis and owning a country he had no claim to?
When he died or abdicated his two sons would have been involved in a power struggle?

Don't be so naive.. if we expect the Iraqis to fend for themselves and build their own country today, surely they would have been inevitably able to do the same thing SANS the invasion. Couldn't we have supported an indigenous, legitimate insurgency movement against Saddam rather than directly provoking an insurgency against our own American coalition? Iraqis hate America MUCH worse than Saddam, they probably could have chased that duppy away all are their own with out the paternalistic help of that bad Uncle Sam who borrows to much money and gets drunk and makes an ass of himself at all the holiday parties (like Ramadan )


Plain and simple, WE FUCKED UP! Saddam was not a threat to the world, he was NOT a threat to the US, he was not a threat to Israel. He was LESS a threat to the Iraqi population at large than the past years of war have been, I say we picked the worse of two evils with this war..

The biggest threat to Israel is not Iraq or Iran, it is ISRAEL making silly and dangerous political moves in the region like laying medieval siege on Gaza or threatening to bomb Iran all the damned time, let alone the secret operations they are conducting through out the area..

We as a country continue to make the same kinds of arrogant and dangerous mistakes internationally, as we wage war against innocents, as we blow shit up illegally in sovereign nations, as we pretend that everybody likes us regardless of all this clearly bad kharma..

one day it will surely be time to pay the piper and these dudes holding the bill look real fucking serious my brother

 

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

iranian chick are HOT

this is true

[ni'k]

yeah all you americans are going to be slaughtered by katana weilding terrorists as you hide in the abandoned mcdonalds cowering in the corner slurping coke straight from the machine crying your fat asses off "oh why didnt we listen to nik and join al qaeda, the winning team!"

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by ni'k

yeah all you americans are going to be slaughtered by katana weilding terrorists as you hide in the abandoned mcdonalds cowering in the corner slurping coke straight from the machine crying your fat asses off "oh why didnt we listen to nik and join al qaeda, the winning team!"

you should be careful with that statement there ni'k... the NSC super computers tend to frown upon such phraseology

remember this guy?

 

[ni'k]

fuck that, those guys are pussys. cia, nsa, fbi, homeland security... pssh, whatevs. those sensitive little elderflowers wont do shit, they'll just mince around in their frocks until their flower arranging class starts. fragile little pussywillows.