[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by knox

Rob, if you do actually care about anything I've been trying to say, it's all explained here, in a way that's more articulate than anything I could ever say here.

This will make you understand why your comments about women's looks are not appreciation, but oppression.

Also recommended to anyone else who's interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=kMS4VJKekW8

will watch when I get the chance knox.

[Dude McDude]

I don't understand why this particular thread gets the gender politics lesson when there's ever so much more retarded sexism going on at this forum.

[Trama]

Originally Posted by knox

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, that is their fault or something?

Again, I was simply pointing out how much more pervasive it is.

[floatingslowly]

As an EXXXTREME gentleman, I would like further clarification as to why I should NOT hold a door open for a lady, considering that I'd do the same regardless of your race, sex, or color (except white people).

My biggest fuck off is the fact that my car's passenger door lacks a keyhole, so I am unable to open my wife's door, before opening mine (something which I would always do, if capable).

[Trama]

Pregnant women are pretty handy at supermarkets. I could use one right now.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Trama

Again, I was simply pointing out how much more pervasive it is.

Right, then I misunderstood you, I apologise.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Dude McDude

I don't understand why this particular thread gets the gender politics lesson when there's ever so much more retarded sexism going on at this forum.

I actually don't go on those threads because I try to spare myself.

I mentioned this a million times before, but some guys seem to think it's more important to talk about women with other men than actually talking to women or having them around. I guess they need the constant high fiving.

In fact, I just remembered why I stopped posting here for such a long time.
There are metal boards with less sexism than here.

Which is ironic because, you know, Kim Gordon.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Trama

Pregnant women are pretty handy at supermarkets. I could use one right now.

"handy" as in "grabs everything"? Yes.

I nearly have given myself whiplash for all the constant neck-turning, just to make sure that she's still with me, and not stopped, several aisles back, staring at boxes of instant pudding.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by knox

I mentioned this a million times before, but some guys seem to think it's more important to talk about women with other men than actually talking to women or having them around. I guess they need the constant high fiving.

I do not understand where you get this from. guys talk to guys about women. women talk to women about guys. so what?

you assume a LOT, and are assigning intent based on a few words on a screen.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I do not understand where you get this from. guys talk to guys about women. women talk to women about guys. so what?

you assume a LOT, and are assigning intent based on a few words on a screen.

so women are forced to put up with men talking about them in ways they find demeaning in spaces that they share?

women talk about guys, yeah, but it's not the same thing, not by far. please stop creating this false symmetry and false equality that doesn't exist.

if you're not going to watch the video and comment on it, then i'm going to have to assume you don't want to take this discussion seriously. you just want to find excuses to tell me why i shouldn't complain when i see behaviour that upsets me.

besides, if anyone puts sexism/racism in the mix they simply cannot get a good reaction from me. in fact, kpp made some good points about that, also ignored.

you say you're open to self-analysis but it really doesn't seem that way... it just seems that you're being defensive.

and if that's really, really hard for you... why not save it for all-boy spaces specific for getting reassurance of your manhood by making objetifying comments? why do you feel that i should handle things that make me feel uncomfortable by simply shutting up?

i get that you're really not that interested in learning more about gender issues... but if a woman tells you that she finds something demeaning SHOULD THAT NOT BE ENOUGH?

[Rob Instigator]

You, nor anyone, has the right to avoid being offended, knox. No one is responsible for your reaction but yourself. Nothing was actually done to demean anyone, just a statement about the propensity of fetching ladies from a part of the world different from where I happen to currently reside.

I cannot watch the video right now as I am at work, earning the big bucks by working for a state university. I told you I will watch it when I get the chance.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Trama

Again, I was simply pointing out how much more pervasive it is.

But actually, I still don't get your point.
Were you implying that because women are taught to self-objectify they shouldn't be allowed to tell men off when they are objetifying them?

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

You, nor anyone, has the right to avoid being offended, knox. No one is responsible for your reaction but yourself. Nothing was actually done to demean anyone, just a statement about the propensity of fetching ladies from a part of the world different from where I happen to currently reside.

I cannot watch the video right now as I am at work, earning the big bucks by working for a state university. I told you I will watch it when I get the chance.

Right.

Just want to let you know that your first paragraph there is very similar, pretty much identical, to a response I got this morning from a company doing racist advertisment.

The fact that you don't think it's demeaning or you didn't meant it to be demeaning doesn't mean it's not demeaning. Prejudices are pretty much embedded in us and it's often difficult to realize they're there and it takes a lot of work to bring them to light and begin to desconstruct these notions.

If someone (especially someone from a segment of society that has been historically opressed and is currently opressed in any way) tells you something is perceived as demeaning to them, this should matter to you.

If someone doesn't like something and speaks about it, that should require some thinking and openness, not a defensive attitude.

Otherwise, you're just enacting the same sinister selfish privileged ideology that maintains all sorts of discrimination, classism etc.

There's no commitment or desire to improve anything in that sort of attitude.

[knox]

Also, I should have said that I don't ask rethorical questions.
I'd appreciate an answer, please:

"so women are forced to put up with men talking about them in ways they find demeaning in spaces that they share?"

"i get that you're really not that interested in learning more about gender issues... but if a woman tells you that she finds something demeaning SHOULD THAT NOT BE ENOUGH?"

Thanks

[louder]

this was supposed to be a good thread.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by louder

this was supposed to be a good thread.

Gifsofblackpeopledoingthings.gif

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by knox

Also, I should have said that I don't ask rethorical questions.
I'd appreciate an answer, please:

"so women are forced to put up with men talking about them in ways they find demeaning in spaces that they share?"

"i get that you're really not that interested in learning more about gender issues... but if a woman tells you that she finds something demeaning SHOULD THAT NOT BE ENOUGH?"

Thanks

in response to your first question: yes, women are forced to do this. So are men. so is anyone anywhere who has to share public spaces with another member of the human race. They are public spaces. I do not mind having a conversation if you find my statement offensive, but you nor anyone has any right to shut down the original speech, dig?

in response to your second question: that is enough to let me know how you feel. It does not dictate whether or not I should have said what I said, or whether I was "right" or "wrong" in doing so. That is a very slippery slope you describe.

[louder]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

Gifsofblackpeopledoingthings.gif

 

*laugh*

[louder]

uhhh.. what are you talking about?

[louder]

let's objectify Iggy Pop, as he has the most disgusting body i've ever seen.

http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0018/y97fO17957.jpg