[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

wild at heart was OK. I just didn't give a shit about the main problems of the protagonists.

oh cmon! laura dern was super hot in it. creepy mama wanting to incestuously interfere. sad sack boyfriend watching the hyenas. snakeskin jacket. temptation and robbery. big tuna. bobby peru. the wizard of oz. mystery car crashes. oh man!

 

 

 

need more los, less urizen!

that movie is mega-myth

[Rob Instigator]

it's just so much fluff.

[demonrail666]

Surely part of why Lynch is so popular is because large sections of his audiences can relate to his 'dream logic'.

[!@#$%!]

all art is dream logic

 

[Rob Instigator]

bullshit. Art is actual objects, images, sound vibrations carried in the air, images reflecting photons into our retinas. Art is waking life.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Surely part of why Lynch is so popular is because large sections of his audiences can relate to his 'dream logic'.

I think part of why dream logic bullshit is so popular is the same reason horoscopes are popular. you say something vacuous enough and everyone feels it applies to them . It is BULLSHIT through and through.

[demonrail666]

Thnking about it more, the logic of Lynch's stories isn't the point for me. It's the atmosphere he creates. He has a way of evoking menace like no other filmmaker I can think of: the 'cowboy' scene in Mulholland Dr, the 'In Dreams' scene in Blue Velvet, the phone call at the party in Lost Highway; the final moments of Fire Walk With Me. Bobby Peru. They're what I think about when I think about Lynch, not the motivation of his protagonists or the dream logic of his storytelling.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

bullshit. Art is actual objects, images, sound vibrations carried in the air, images reflecting photons into our retinas. Art is waking life.

this is too wrong. i don’t know where to begin.

[Rob Instigator]

ART is one thing. Your personal experience of art may be what YOU are referring to as "dream logic" but that is bullshit too. conscious thought, hard logic, rigorous introspection and all those things come from actual logic, not the subconscious, which is where dreams arise.


an "Idea" is not art (fuck the lazy conceptualists).


Art is a physical object (painting, musical score, sculpture, book, etc.) or it is manifested in the physical (perfume, music in our ears, etc.).


it exist whether or not anyone is dreaming or experiencing it. UNLIKE dreams, which are only real to those creating the dream.




fuck david lynch.

[Rob Instigator]

30 thousand year old art.

 

it is not a dream. it is REAL. it survives it's creator by MILLENIA. The Venus of Willendorf is art without the need for Dreams. It is art without the tedious use of dream logic to create false meaning and obfuscation.


Art exists beyond its creator. Dreams do NOT. (by "dreams" I mean the literal images sounds and sensations you feel when you are asleep. I do not use "dreams" and "ideas" interchangeably. Ideas live on. Dreams die with the dreamer thankfully, or else we would all have to live in each other's nightmares! This is what I hate about David Lynch. Fuck his dreams, fuck his nightmares. I do not want to partake.)

[!@#$%!]

i never said that art was independent of matter or the senses. that silly straw man is your invention.

feel free to whack it with your pitchfork but it has nothing to do with me.

the material has to embody something. yes, an idea, an emotion, something beyond regular logic.

art appeals to the imagination, which operates with “dream logic.” it’s not just the surrealists who did that. that willendorf carving is precisely the stuff of dreams. nobody really looks like that, except goddesses.

art since its origins has been bound with religion. even after religion, it becomes a sort of secular religion. it provides meaning beyond common reason and the everyday.

the opposite of dream logic in art is what hitchcock called “moronic logic”. in other words, everyday logic with no aesthetic value.

[Antagon]

Must spread some rep before giving it to demonrail666 again.

Also I feel like Twin Peaks is being unfairly reduced to just the dream-logic aspect of it. It is of course an intricate part of the series and adds a lot to its charm, but I don't think that's all there's to it. There were several things at play that made it as beloved as it is. Beneath the odd interactions and the heightened dramatism in the execution there lie real fears, real emotional phenomena that are being explored in the show. Granted, in a very grandiose and dramatic way, but they are there. There's grief being displayed in many different ways, kindness and genuine care, emotional suppression, acting tough despite intense psychological distress, jealousy, feelings of guilt and helplessness etc.

The great atmosphere and the dream-like weirdness for lack of a better term are what initially drew me in and made me appreciate the show way back. Now on my rewatch however, I started to appreciate the deeply-rooted emotional core of the show as well. I don't think the show was only successful because of its surreal atmosphere and its quirkiness. I'd like to think that people could relate to certain aspects the show touched on. Hell, I watched videos about people reacting to certain things happening in the third season and explaining the emotional impact it had on them and how they felt for the characters depicted in these particular scenes.

And that's down to the writing and the performances. I think they deserve a mention. Sometimes the dialogue is laying it on pretty thick, I have to admit, but even that is at least in part intentional as it sought to parody popular soap operas of its time. And yet, I can't help but be really immersed in the turmoil of these colorful characters. No easy feat.

[demonrail666]

Absolutely agree. There's an emotional core to his best films and Lynch never cheapens it. And he definitely has a knack for getting great performances from his actors. Dennis Hopper never bettered his performance in Blue Velvet. Ditto John Hurt in The Elephant Man. And so on. Sheryl Lee's performance in Fire Walk With Me (his most underated film imo) is incredible. The actors have to take ultimate credit for that but it was Lynch who found a way of drawing it out of them.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

ART is one thing. Your personal experience of art may be what YOU are referring to as "dream logic" but that is bullshit too. conscious thought, hard logic, rigorous introspection and all those things come from actual logic, not the subconscious, which is where dreams arise.


an "Idea" is not art (fuck the lazy conceptualists).


Art is a physical object (painting, musical score, sculpture, book, etc.) or it is manifested in the physical (perfume, music in our ears, etc.).


it exist whether or not anyone is dreaming or experiencing it. UNLIKE dreams, which are only real to those creating the dream.




fuck david lynch.

Just hopping in here, but why does what you’re saying necessitate the “fuck David Lynch” comment? Are you saying David Lynch doesn’t make art? That he doesn’t understand art?

Either way, nah.

[Rob Instigator]

Just to eb clear,


my opinion of Lynch and his work is purely personal, extremely subjective, completely not meant to convince any other human being, and based on a LOT of personal experience with Lynch's work in the past 30 years of my 46 year old life.


you guys are free to enjoy

[Rob Instigator]

just cuz I hate Lynch and his work does not mean i think less of someone who loves it. that is how art works. you're all pretty.

[ilduclo]

I agree, Rob. I never thought much of it, either.

[!@#$%!]

season 5 of breaking bad walt is such a fucking unmitigated asshole.

[Severian]

Season 5 (part 2) of Arrested Development

[!@#$%!]

holy fuck i had forgotten how fucking much walt LIES

he’s a machine now