[ni'k]

it's funny because you're proving what i said to be correct. but i know that your mighty highness should not have to lower himself to read something he deems as "whiny".

you want a summary? its time for certain fatuous self important males to realise that if they only shut up and listened to other people, like, women, they might learn something instead of boring us all to death with their need to drone on and on till everyone has heard them express their judgement and finality on the subject proving them king of truth for all eternity. if they did this they might actually get the pussy they seem to come on here and compensate for lacking. but not you of course.

something like that. only i tried to be more sympathetic and framed it nicer, and tried to show a bit of compassion towards the end.

[Better_Than_Deux]

i am on the case.

and no i didn't know that, no wonder. that actually makes sense.

[Better_Than_Deux]

you want a summary? its time for certain fatuous self important males to realise that if they only shut up and listened to other people, like, women, they might learn something instead of boring us all to death with their need to drone on and on till everyone has heard them express their judgement and finality on the subject proving them king of truth for all eternity. if they did this they might actually get the pussy they seem to be desperately lacking.

[space]

I'm in love with my best friend of 8+ years.

now....if you guys can please keep quiet while I rub one out thinking of unicrons, I'd appreciate it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Better_Than_Deux

you want a summary? its time for certain fatuous self important males to realise that if they only shut up and listened to other people, like, women, they might learn something instead of boring us all to death with their need to drone on and on till everyone has heard them express their judgement and finality on the subject proving them king of truth for all eternity. if they did this they might actually get the pussy they seem to be desperately lacking.

i don't know if that was directed at me, but if it was (i suspect it was) there's a lot wrong with it

i listen to women, and my nudity-filled post was an illustrated response to knox and the points she made. i was hoping she'd respond sooner because i enjoy her arguments.

i might drone on and on, but i'm not expressing finality on the subject-- i actually love hearing good counterarguments. if nik can't make counterarguments and prefers to rant, that's his call.

about lacking "pussy"-- who is objectifying here?

i don't come here to "look for pussy", ive been married for almost 7 years and while we've had our share of troubles, drama, fights, lunacy, and even temporary separations, we do have a very strong bond that i rarely discuss here in this shithole, because i don't want it soiled by "you people".

but since i work at home i actually come here to horse around, and i enjoy the mostly unfiltered nature of the process (which is why i dislike facebook)

anyway, if nik was talking about someone else, i still think he's making too many hysterical extrapolations. although i know flotto found "pussy" online (my apologies flotto + ms, it's how nik put it)-- in spite, or perhaps because, of his japanese calamari fetish, i don't think people come here to impress anybody-- it's more like we enjoy making asses of ourselves. at least that's my approach to this place. and then sometimes i get serious.

[ni'k]

right. its not directed at anyone in particualar, just the composite of behaviour i read here. i guess i can see that because you have a wife you feel some need to use the board to make an ass of yourself.

the point might not to be to talk so you can enjoy countering the counter arguments, but to listen and think about what someone else has said?

because nobody in my mind has properly listened to what the women have been saying here, because if they would have they would address the issue of the images. they would have agreed to only keep them to the one thread, because as i said in my post you are acting like you are too stuck up to read but still comment upon, it's getting nauseating.

and i think that that shows a lack of respect for women here, because you all went on and on, as if to say "we are gonna just keep posting whatever the hell we want and you can listen to us justify it." you started arguments about the definition of objectification, but it all seemed to be solely for the purpose of proving you didn't have to change anything about the way you thought or behaved. it seemed only to occur to you to prove yourselves, not consider changing anything. this to me is the ultimate example of male fuckheadedness in a conversation and i am totally guilty of it all the time.

so my suggestion is to so show some respect for women (and the rest of us) in what you DO here and keep the grossness to one thread? fair enough? you could also try to tone down the mysogyny in the way you all talk about women sometimes? sound reasonable?

[!@#$%!]

sorry if you find the naked women gross man, i don't, i'm used to seeing that stuff everywhere, so i apologize if i hurt your delicate sensibilities.

i needed those pictures to illustrate my point, which is actually that women are accomplices in their own commodification and that photos of people are not real people. i did show examples to bolster my argument, not to "post some ass"

maybe you need to practice what you're preaching and read for comprehension, like you ask other people to do?

for the record: a woman (BTD) gave me pos rep for that post, so don't make yourself the spokesman for all women in the universe-- yes?

you're a smart dude and i like you, but you're aware that sometimes you get a little deranged, don't you? (i'm guilty of the same, by the way-- i get angry and rant). i'd love to read your arguments after you take a deep breath or two.

[Better_Than_Deux]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i don't know if that was directed at me, but if it was (i suspect it was) there's a lot wrong with it

did you see n'ik post that first? i was just being a brat and copying what he said.

but i really do think he has a point.

keep the pictures of ladies titties,asses,thighs,and vaginas (and even mens titties,asses,thighs,and outside-vaginas) in one thread.

its sometimes embarressing borrowing friends laptops and having them look over my shoulder and be like, 'YOURE INTO THAT???'

not that i can ever recall that happening but it probably has/will.

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by symbol man

sorry if you find the naked women gross man, i don't, i'm used to seeing that stuff everywhere, so i apologize if i hurt your delicate sensibilities.

i needed those pictures to illustrate my point, which is actually that women are accomplices in their own commodification and that photos of people are not real people. i did show examples to bolster my argument, not to "post some ass"

maybe you need to practice what you're preaching and read for comprehension, like you ask other people to do?

for the record: a woman (BTD) gave me pos rep for that post, so don't make yourself the spokesman for all women in the universe-- yes?

you're a smart dude and i like you, but you're aware that sometimes you get a little deranged, don't you? (i'm guilty of the same, by the way-- i get angry and rant). i'd love to read your arguments after you take a deep breath or two.

im not talking specifically about the images you posted.

im talking about the constant barrage of them, all the gross porn, that's posted everywhere by loads of guys here.

so your sensibilites aren't delicate and are hard like a mans or some shit, but maybe when other peoples are you and they complain you could all try to just relegate them to the one thread? i don't find that particularily unreasonable.

but yeah, you just sadly seem to be proving some of my criticisms of guys here right again by the way you are engaging with me.

[Better_Than_Deux]

and you WERE making a really good point @#$&#($*&#; I could see that.

but some of the stuff that gets posted on here is fucking nasty. you could never ever call it 'tasteful'

it's about drawing a line somewhere, you know?

like some gif images that i've seen on here are gross.

amerikangods where the wrestler dude grabs the ladies vagina for example. i found that offensive. AND, NO AMERIKANGOD, you don't need to reiterate what you said about taking things too seriously... but i have a friend who got her puss grabbed at a party once by a big baseball player, and there was nothing funny about hearing that story the morning after. it's fucking degrading.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Better_Than_Deux

did you see n'ik post that first? i was just being a brat and copying what he said.

but i really do think he has a point.

keep the pictures of ladies titties,asses,thighs,and vaginas (and even mens titties,asses,thighs,and outside-vaginas) in one thread.

its sometimes embarressing borrowing friends laptops and having them look over my shoulder and be like, 'YOURE INTO THAT???'

not that i can ever recall that happening but it probably has/will.

yes of course, i saw you reposting as the summary of his argument.

i do think he overreacted though, by ignoring the fact that the pictures are posted were central to my argument in this conversation i'm trying to have with knox, while he screams that we "don't listen to women". oy.....

anyway, peace and love, etc.

did i tell you i wanted to rep you for that oxytocin post? smart.

[Better_Than_Deux]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

did i tell you i wanted to rep you for that oxytocin post? smart.

which one? the first one? i had to repeat myself 4 times.

[knox]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

for knoxter (i'm skipping over the cockfest above):

my post was addressing the complaint that was articulated by porky and glice (not sure in the same vein, but anyway) that people tend to post too much tit and ass in this board and this turns off/offends people as it is seen as objectification of their gender.

my response however was not aimed at social activity and real people-- it was aimed at pictures posted on the internet. the pictures that we post here are usually those of media personalities / porn people who make a business of marketing their genitals for a buck. and we're dealing with pictures-- not real persons.

as a 3rd world person, i grew up consorting with whores since age 15, because "good girls" didn't put out until they were in the university. i was horny, there was an avenue for it, so it was a good 3 years until i finally could have sex with a girl i loved, and then i never looked back. i'll tell you this, however-- i never "objectified" the whores-- they were people, some very nice, we got along well most of the time, we'd fuck and chat and have a nice little personal connection until someone would knock the door (always too soon).

now, is prostitution wrong? i believe that depends on their working conditions. but regardless of their business- did i treat those women as a piece of meat to be discarded? no i didn't-- i treated them respectfully and affectionately and with immense gratitude-- they were helping me get my rocks off, they gave me something voluntarily for which they got something in return, and i was ready to build them a little altar in my home. i have some fond memories of them and i hope they are doing well. but they were people, real people, not objects.

however, it is easy to objectify/reify/dehumanize PICTURES of people who WILLINGLY SELL THESE IMAGES as objects of desire-- and i'd venture that most of those people enjoy that as a sort of power they hold over their audience. it's a mutually agreed-upon transaction and the object itself is the currency being trafficked. they are not selling their "souls", just pictures of their bodies.

take for example bai-ling. she's a terrible actress but she's hot. here's a picture of her:

 

while i'm sure that's airbrushed, i believe it to be a genuine picture, because i do recognize her nipples. she purposefully slips them out often:

 

is it wrong to see her as a non-person bearer of nipples? i'm not having a cup of coffee with her and hearing about her childhood dreams. she hasn't told me what's her favorite color or what books have changed her life and how she feels about the oil spill in the gulf-- she presents herself as tits and ass. it's her business, and people spend a ton of money to consume visions of said tits and ass. she makes money for it.

while having sexual desire for a real person does not entail turning them into a thing, a thing (picture) meant to arouse sexual desire is already an object, not a person, and it's fair game for treating it like an object. there's a huge difference between real people and pictures of people, at least for me.

anyway, on that same line of thought-- let's assume i get to meet bai-ling in person, and we have a nice dinner and talk about stuff and we hit it off she invites me to her bedroom (hey, we can all fantasize), she would then cease to be an object (picture) and turn into a real person by virtue of our interaction.

what we post here are not the souls and stories of real people. they are just pictures. the dehumanization occurred at the moment the photo was taken, not when some horny person decided to post it here.

 

now, some people will find those pictures offensive, but that's another story. i just wanted to clarify that we're not posting "real women" here, we're posting pictures of tits and ass that were created expressly for the purpose of elliciting desire-- from the "classy":

 

to the grotesque:

(just reached my picture limit but you can find it here)
http://www.juggworld.com/images/categories/bigtits.jpg

blame the patriarchy if you will for such kind of commerce, but remember that "the patriarchy" is not men alone. women participate equally in it.

Dear *&¨%¨%

Whether this people chose or not to sell a dehumanized idea of themselves for some bucks, very often the ways that we come across them (specially women) have nothing to do with choice.

I don't agree with censorship and I have never suggested it. My initial point was when I come to a Sonic Youth forum it generally means I expect to find something other than I can find in adverts and gossip magazines. Hence the dissapointment when I suddenly realized for a few days the main activity was no different than the one you see in any given shitty website.

I cannot help being surrounded by these objectifying images of women, for as long as I can remember. I cannot help being categorized, patronized, and labelled according to them. I can't help the pressure they have brought upon. I can't help the feeling of void whenever I notice people's ability to completely dehumanize a body (because if we're to be honest that's what we feel - we know at some point it was or will be done to us). Therefore, I had no choice. NO CHOICE AT ALL.

I never once blamed men solely for sexism and once again I'm insulted that you even suggest that I need to remember that. All I need to do is voice my opinion and suddenly I'm labelled in a stereotypical category that's people's idea of feminism.

Women are incredibly sexist and in many ways responsible for perpetuating patriarchal ideals. Women are not the only victims of sexism - it's humanity in general.

I'm somehow shocked that you say that you're not posting real women. Because that's like the ultimate admission of objetification. There is no such thing as a woman that is not 'real'. It's that very thought that baffles me.

The very same thinking you've shown: You gotta take me out for a coffee so I can become a real person. Do you understand that many people have turned it into that? The first assumption is I am an object (as long as you don't know me I don't need to be seen as a human being). If you don't take me for a cup of coffee I remain like that.

That happens in real life to real women as a consequence of these twisted thoughts. I don't know one woman who hasn't felt that way. It's nothing new tho. Women have been objects/property in most societies for thousands of years now. (Drop your father's name take your husband's name now that you've changed owners).

And then you get people with Rob's cop out strategy:
I am a good guy, ya'll. In real life, I treat women real nice. Things have been worse in our society before, so I think it's all ok!!!! I don't need to think about the morals behind my actions because everyone's doing it guys!

YOU KNOW, that's the majority.

From my point of view, everytime you bring something out men get pretty defensive as if they're being accused or something or whatever. It's not like they wanna hear what it feels like, they just want to excuse themselves. It's not like most people are prepared to find out that even tho they are mostly good people, we also take part in the most evil of the human world.

Sometimes not doing is way way more criminal than doing.

I DONT KNOW, but you know. There are women on this forum. Perhaps we just get fucking tired of seeing tits and ass and pussies everywhere. Maybe it makes us FEEL bad. Maybe that should be kept in some wanking guys threads, just so we'd know, just out of some degree of respect.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Better_Than_Deux

and you WERE making a really good point @#$&#($*&#; I could see that.

but some of the stuff that gets posted on here is fucking nasty. you could never ever call it 'tasteful'

it's about drawing a line somewhere, you know?

like some gif images that i've seen on here are gross.

amerikangods where the wrestler dude grabs the ladies vagina for example. i found that offensive. AND, NO AMERIKANGOD, you don't need to reiterate what you said about taking things too seriously... but i have a friend who got her puss grabbed at a party once by a big baseball player, and there was nothing funny about hearing that story the morning after. it's fucking degrading.

yeah i don't find beating up women funny at all and that gif sucks.

however, i do like the freewheeling nature of this place. and if that means i have to avert my eyes when i see some unpleasant shit (there is plenty), i'll avert my eyes and move on to what interests me. it's a conscious choice.

i could go frequent censored and managed boards but those usually suck. the price of freedom is having to put up with shit we dislike in others-- like the presence of keep it simpleton, for example-- that shouldn't keep us from expressing our opinion on it though, so calling someone on their unpleasant shit is totally fair game, and so on & so forth.

[knox]

also, i love nik.

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yes of course, i saw you reposting as the summary of his argument.

i do think he overreacted though, by ignoring the fact that the pictures are posted were central to my argument in this conversation i'm trying to have with knox, while he screams that we "don't listen to women". oy.....

anyway, peace and love, etc.

did i tell you i wanted to rep you for that oxytocin post? smart.

i already addressed that it wasn't specifically the ones you posted. you're purposefully ignoring me and as ive said so many times already proving what i said right. i'm not offended by it, but i will say you should try a bit harder to listen, instead of painting me as hysterical and trying to back out now that you've got the last word in. i'm sure you can do better. so far you have just provided an example of the kind of attitude i was complaining about in the first place.

i think it's you that overreacted in saying that a post you didn't read was hysterical. what's hysterical is refusing to read it because even the slightest criticism of how you are behaving could not possibly have merit.

you sir, could do a lot better than that.

____________________

and everyone here should step up to the plate and prove they have some respect for women by keeping the gross porn and stuff to one particular thread.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ni'k

i already addressed that it wasn't specifically the ones you posted. you're purposefully ignoring me and as ive said so many times already proving what i said right. i'm not offended by it, but i will say you should try a bit harder to listen, instead of painting me as hysterical and trying to back out now that you've got the last word in. i'm sure you can do better. so far you have just provided an example of the kind of attitude i was complaining about in the first place.

i think it's you that overreacted in saying that a post you didn't read was hysterical. what's hysterical is refusing to read it because even the slightest criticism of how you are behaving could not possibly have merit.

you sir, could do a lot better than that.

hold on man, i'm trying to read your post right above this, gimme some time to digest before you jump on my throat. time-out....

[davenotdead]

page 13 is tl;dr .

except for that unicron pic at the top. i read that part

[knox]

Also, not many women post on this forum. The few that do have been doing it less. Does it occur to anyone that you might be driving women away? I sometimes wonder if guys in general are more interested in women or other guy's approval and pat in the back.

[davenotdead]

other guy's approval. not even close