[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Derek

Give Biden a break, he's senile and should be surrounded by his loved ones living a quiet life instead of driving around the US in a No Malarkey bus with a bunch of yes men.

and yet, a group of trumpkins has been airing an anti-biden commercial using misquotes from one of obama’s books.

they are terrified of him.

any of our candidates is the better candidate.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

and yet, a group of trumpkins has been airing an anti-biden commercial using misquotes from one of obama’s books.

they are terrified of him.

any of our candidates is the better candidate.

Yeah but it was just some surrogate group or something. Plus Trump loves picking a fight with anyone and everyone and so will his followers. Bernie is the one they're all scared of. I actually just watched a clip from Tucker Carlson where he said it's "time to take Bernie seriously" and that he could seriously get elected. He then went into some right-wing nonsense about his immigration policy and said that he was going to do a running series on Bernie's "scary" policies. Plus there's the audio of Trump saying that Bernie was the only one he didn't want to go up against in 2016. That tells me that they're seeing something that the dem establishment and media are grossly underestimating.

[!@#$%!]

fucking tucker carlson lol

a sorry pissant

the only place he could make himself relevant was fucks news

yeah the thing about 2016 was known. re: trade

[Derek]

Yeah, trade. That was one of Trump's big selling points to a lot of people and if Biden is the nominee it'll become a repeat of 2016 because Trump will nail him on NAFTA and other trade agreements constantly. He loses that argument as well as his anti-establishment argument when up against Bernie. Strategically it sounds like the surest bet and the Republicans are moving into a strategy that will just fail. Keep America Great? If people don't think their lives have materially improved under your leadership then that sort of tactic doesn't work.

 

God he was right on the money in that second paragraph, eh.

[Kuhb]

Originally Posted by Derek

Yeah, trade. That was one of Trump's big selling points to a lot of people and if Biden is the nominee it'll become a repeat of 2016 because Trump will nail him on NAFTA and other trade agreements constantly. He loses that argument as well as his anti-establishment argument when up against Bernie. Strategically it sounds like the surest bet and the Republicans are moving into a strategy that will just fail. Keep America Great? If people don't think their lives have materially improved under your leadership then that sort of tactic doesn't work.

 

God he was right on the money in that second paragraph, eh.

One of the reasons that it's a potential disaster that AOC, with her 'open borders' rhetoric, has become so closely associated with Sanders.

Bernie's past positions on free trade and free movement have been proven more and more to be correct over time and this puts him in an excellent position against Trump. Unless, of course, AOC confuses the message with her feel good, anti-working class politics.

[Bytor Peltor]

Kim Gordon will be at Echo Park tomorrow knocking on doors for Bernie

 

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

it's funny (or horrifying too, if you don't have a cynical sense of humor) how the word "socialist" itself is being exploited, regardless of the actual proposed policies behind it.

sanders is no more a socialist than FDR was, but because he calls himself one... soviet union!!!

pure propaganda.

Mice die in mousetraps because they don’t understand why the cheese is free......

It’s the exact same thing with socialism!!!

[Kuhb]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

Mice die in mousetraps because they don’t understand why the cheese is free......

It’s the exact same thing with socialism!!!

More exclamation marks don't make it more true

[Kuhb]

On the reevaluation of 'socialism' and the role of government in our lives... the 30/40 year neoliberal experiment has revealed to huge numbers of people that certain key aspects of our lives, healthcare and education key among them, ought not be beholden to the market. Markets might be fantastic for distributing commodities, but have failed in a vast array of other areas.

It's not a matter of people being stupid mice not knowing where cheese comes from, people are a lot smarter than that. The Democrats might just make themselves a viable force again in the 21st century by borrowing some of that New Deal/Scandinavian socialism.

[demonrail666]

I agree, but (in reference to your earlier point) the problem is that Sanders has allowed himself to become welded to a set of civic positions that could well alienate him from so many of the same people who might otherwise be tempted by his economics. Should they eventually face each other in a debate, Trump won't need to argue against Sanders economics, when all he has to do is continually probe him on his plans for things like border-security.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I agree, but (in reference to your earlier point) the problem is that Sanders has allowed himself to become welded to a set of civic positions that could well alienate him from so many of the same people who might otherwise be tempted by his economics. Should they eventually face each other in a debate, Trump won't need to argue against Sanders economics, when all he has to do is continually probe him on his plans for things like border-security.

sanders doesn’t have unreasonable border plans.he wants secure borders and permanent residency instead of abusive temporary worker visas. which is good for the local labor force.

although, in fairness, a welfare state might attract more border jumpers. and trade reductions would remove incentives for border crossers to stay at home due to reduced economic opportunity.

i don’t think nafta was a failure because it increased trade. the failure here was one aspect of it: of education and worker retraining.

the requirements to apply for worker retraining were mega-bureaucratic. you had to prove that your business had been affected etc etc. a day late and a dollar short after you had been affected. pure bullshit. workers were left at the mercy of their luck.

it should have been free community college for all who applied and more coordination between industry and education, which has proven successful where it has happened.

even during the great recession there were millions of unfilled jobs due to lack of training. and help with relocation would have been great. we’re still at it: not enough skilled labor.

meanwhile, the middle class in mexico has grown significantly and mexican immigration has diminished as a result of nafta. trade did not bring untold suffering to them as bernie’s article suggested. where there was a problem with hunger, now they suffer from obesity. first world problems!

the bulk of border jumpers are now coming from devastated regions beyond mexico, e.g. honduras.

and a little trade would help honduras, which is a country with old ties to new orleans, a major caribbean port. honduran workers rebuilt new orleans after katrina btw.

the future of the americas is one of economic integration. it’s been happening since the pleistocene, it was very much present at the foundation of the united states, and it will continue to happen into the future. it just needs to be done the right way.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

sanders doesn’t have unreasonable border plans.

That's not the issue. It's not about whether they're unreasonable (which could be argued for and against ad infinitum) but whether, come election day, they prove unpopular enough to turn off voters he might otherwise turn on.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

That's not the issue. It's not about whether they're unreasonable (which could be argued for and against ad infinitum) but whether, come election day, they prove unpopular enough to turn off voters he might otherwise turn on.

hmmm... oh i see what you mean.

i don’t think he’s stupid to fall for such nonsense baits in a debate. and having witnessed their lawyerspeak, i think other candidates might be less able to respond than bernie.

but all kinds of everything will be weaponized against him or whoever ends up being the candidate. little things blown out of proportion, and if it’s not there it will be made up anyway.

witness the wingnut pundit response to the coronavirus for a sample.

[Bytor Peltor]

Death By Primary

[Bytor Peltor]

Which Bernie are you?

 

[!@#$%!]

ok, so, im looking at sc exit polls rn

white voters (40% of voters) even split between biden and bernie (26/25)
black voters (56% of voters) it's 60/17 (wow)

17-29 voters 46% for sanders... BUT they're only 11% of voters (ouch)
30-44 looks even 31/29 for biden but again only 31% of voters
45-64, 48% to biden 17% to sanders and it's the biggest voter block with 42% of the total
65+ massively towards biden with 58% bernie 13 but 28% of the vote

per the 2000 census sc population 18 to 44 adds up to 40%
population 45+++ adds up to 32%

older people vote at much higher rates than younger people.

looks to me the pro-bernie youth mobilization is not happening... at least in south carolina it's certainly not.

then again democrats are not going to with south carolina anyway...

but yeah that there is bernie's weak spot: relying on a bunch of feckless whippersnappers

if we're gonna keep saying "ok boomer" for the next 5 years... it's the fucking kids' fault.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Kuhb

More exclamation marks don't make it more true

 

[Derek]

Hey dude, Ronald Reagan is almost definitely in hell right now.

[Derek]

I read that South Carolina has the largest generation gap in any state in regards to the amount of older people. Bernie definitely cannot compete there with the majority of older white and black voters that were a shoe-in for Biden. Good job on winning something though. It's a miracle at all that Bernie will come second and get delegates while everyone else remains a dud. Surprised Steyer's bid doesn't seem to be working there but someone needs to drop out at this point anyway.

[!@#$%!]

fdr was more “socialist” than bernie

read a book for once

ANYWAY, sc has more people under 45 than over 45

problem is the little shits don’t vote

the generation gap is in VOTERS

anyway, super tuesday is next and that’s when the real avalanche happens

—

results i’m seeing show:

100% of the vote

biden 48%, 36 delegates

sanders 20%, 11 delegates

everyone else zero dellies (blandman 11, boyscout 8, warren 7, klobby 3)

eta: this is the final now