[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

done the flip on the frank ocean record...immaculately produced and he has a beautiful voice but the songwriting is so, so weak, the whole thing is massively undercooked. the vocal melodies just follow the chord progressions which hardly differentiate themselves among the songs which all drag along at the same tempo. still exponentially more interesting than his last record (the adoration of which made no sense to me at all). it's very nice to try to make an ambitious, personal record, but if it's so abstruse as to be completely impersonal and frankly not nearly as interesting as so many other artists operating in the same sphere without the baggage of a self-constructed myth then it's sort of obsolete...

Interesting take.

I can't say I agree. I do think it's a pretty goddamn slow record, and I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more diversity in meter and time signature. But you've given me a few things to chew on. Thanks for sharing. Really.

I've liked it since the beginning, but it felt almost like a Radiohead album at first... (you know, one of those slow, plodding Radiohead albums that sounds good at times, but when taken as a whole can be almost sleep-inducing). The more I listen, though, the more moments of revelation I find. It does seem to push itself forward fairly well, at a stately if subdued pace. It's a VERY welcome remedy to the vast majority of hip-hop releases that have come out this year, so many of which have been utterly without color or texture or hue, resorting instead to mid-tempo semi-banger after mid-tempo semi-banger, and god DAMN that shit gets old. So compared to all but two or three hip-hop and hip-hop adjacent albums this year's had to offer, it sounds like high art.

Regarding Channel Orange, no offense, but if you weren't into that album, I'm not sure why you'd even bother with this one, let alone hope or expect to like it. I guess I'm not sure why you're fucking with Frank at all. Channel Orange is his only proper album (pre-Blonde and Endless). He has ONE other release and it's a mixtape. If you don't like cO, you don't like 100% of his album-output, so ... why bother?

Personally, I think Channel Orange is a great record. I don't think it's as great as a lot of folks do... In the grand scheme of the decade's great R&B albums, it absolutely shrinks and pales in comparison to Black Messiah. But it was certainly one of the best albums of 2012. I wasn't entirely on board at first either. It took several listens for me to appreciate the production and writing, but it definitely made a lasting impression eventually.

In general, though I love Frank Ocean, I'm not usually in the kind of mindset where I can put such slow, meditative, often downer-heavy music (unless it's ambient guitar shit). I listen to Blonde in fragments. I can't sit still for the entire thing. But when I do listen, to it or to Channel Orange (or Nostalgia Ultra. for that matter) I always hear something amazing.

Long story short, stop listening to Frank Ocean, since you don't like Frank Ocean.

[guest]

that's my thing, there's this conception among people whose opinions I largely respect that he's a grand visionary who's been met with commercial success along the lines of aaliyah, d'angelo, janet jackson et al where he's making artfully-curated pop r&b, but I don't feel he approaches these artists on any level unfortunately. the first record felt like a competent throwback and this one at least approaches things interestingly (admirable but not necessarily a grand accomplishment) but it's not at the calibre of any of them. not saying he's bad but he is in no way befitting of that legend status people are unfairly ascribing to him.

[louder]

My current situation is weird, see.. Frank and Vince dropped, but I find myself listening to JEFFERY the most, out of all things.

The critics are calling JEFFERY Young Thug's best one to date.. so at least it's not just me, and maybe I didn't go crazy after all. Anyone willing to listen?

[louder]

I'm starting to realize that Frank Ocean is overrated. I have one friend who is obsessed with him and won't stop babbling about him everyday. There are other wonderful R&B acts out there who dropped fantastic albums this year, such as Anderson .Paak, Maxwell, KING.. and last year where we had some great albums which went under the radar by Miguel, Jazmine Sullivan, The Internet, Hiatus Kaiyote and RASHAD.. ah well.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by louder

My current situation is weird, see.. Frank and Vince dropped, but I find myself listening to JEFFERY the most, out of all things.

The critics are calling JEFFERY Young Thug's best one to date.. so at least it's not just me, and maybe I didn't go crazy after all. Anyone willing to listen?

I'll give it a listen. Remember, I gave Barter 6 a fair shot too. I don't want to dismiss this one just cuz I didn't like that one. And I actually really like "Mixtape" from Coloring Book. And I liked him on "Highlights."

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

I'm starting to realize that Frank Ocean is overrated.

Uh. Seriously?

that would get old, though. If someone blabbed in my ear about Frank — or anyone — every day. Yeah, I know I talk about certain dudes a lot here, but getting it in earful form is a lot more taxing.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

My current situation is weird, see.. Frank and Vince dropped, but I find myself listening to JEFFERY the most, out of all things.

The critics are calling JEFFERY Young Thug's best one to date.. so at least it's not just me, and maybe I didn't go crazy after all. Anyone willing to listen?

Well, first off, what the critics are saying doesn't matter. Not much anyway. They exist for us to bitch and shoot the shit about. Nothing more. If critical opinion was important to you, you'd have gotten on board with Pablo (perhaps the one about-face you haven't made that you really should have made by now).

But I ain't beefin'.
I did listen to Jeffery avtually. I was a bit surprised at first. I thought, "this isn't so bad!" And I guess it's not so bad as pure ear candy. There's a bit of OutKast energy in there. A little oddball weirdo thuginess that I can kind of dig. But god damn those lyrics are awful. And often really disgusting... If the "bleached asshole" line bothered you and the lyrics to Thug's "Kanye West" don't, then I can only conclude that it's because Ye's were clear and understandable, and Thug's require RapGenius to even partially decode... but the slippery pussy shit gets old really fast. At least in "Father Stretch my hands..." It was only one line in a two-part, multi-faceted movement track with a shitload of other things to offer. With "Kanye West" it's just gratuitous, redundant, chaotic profanity for the fuck of it.

But, yes I've listened and will listen again. I want to like Thug. Really I do. I just... don't, particularly.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Uh. Seriously?

Yeah I'm talking about some dude I know in real life.

"Hardcore" Frank fans actually compare him to the likes of Marvin, Stevie and even Bob Dylan, which is.. too far.

[louder]

Yeah I don't think of Thug's lyrics, he has no bars. I think he just says some random shit and his main focus is on his flow and energy. I'm not sure if I'd even consider him a rapper at this point. On "Jeffery" he's something inbetween a rapper and a singer.

Thanks for willing to give it a chance, y'all.

[louder]

See Young Thug is a very weird fellow, and I don't get half of his ideas most of the time.. but it is what it is. And for what it's worth, I think Jeffery sounds good.

[louder]

He's the kind of guy who raps "I fuck on your baby momma" repetitively on a hook just because, although recently said he doesn't even care for sex.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Uh. Seriously?

that would get old, though. If someone blabbed in my ear about Frank — or anyone — every day. Yeah, I know I talk about certain dudes a lot here, but getting it in earful form is a lot more taxing.

Man it really got to a point where I already get annoyed just from hearing him bringing up Frank or solely mentioning his name again. Ugh.

I still like Frank though, don't get me wrong.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

that's my thing, there's this conception among people whose opinions I largely respect that he's a grand visionary who's been met with commercial success along the lines of aaliyah, d'angelo, janet jackson et al where he's making artfully-curated pop r&b, but I don't feel he approaches these artists on any level unfortunately. the first record felt like a competent throwback and this one at least approaches things interestingly (admirable but not necessarily a grand accomplishment) but it's not at the calibre of any of them. not saying he's bad but he is in no way befitting of that legend status people are unfairly ascribing to him.

I actually agree.

I mean, I quite like everything he's released, but I don't think there's anything new or trailblazing about any of it. I just think it's good crooner R&B/soul-inflected hip hop. Plain and simple. I think Channel Orange is great, but not earth shattering (which is an adjective I would certainly attach to everything D'angelo has released, as well as Aaliyah, and the best Erykah Badu and Roots records). It's just good old fashioned pop music to me. Kind of reminds me of an "urban" (god I hope that doesn't sound racially charged... I'm using the term in reference to common radio-based music categorizations) version of Sinatra.

Not to dig myself even deeper into a hole for knee jerk liberals to shit into, but I think that a fair amount of Frank's "OMG" value is a direct result of his being an openly gay hip hop artist. I think his music was applauded when he came out, when in reality his music carries absolutely no queer or LGBT elements. Frank Ocean the person should have been lauded for that particular display of bravery, but his music benefitted, which is kind of sad. Even though it's solid music, it's been attributed as "revolutionary" by some (mostly fickle millennials who don't know their ass from their mouth), and that's almost offensive in some ways.

That said, I think one of the most impressive things about Frank Ocean is that he came from OFWGKTA stock. In that context, he really does seem almost like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of juvenile absurdity. Earl has made similar leaps, but the great Odd Future experiment as a whole turned out to be kind of embarrassing once it was given time to marinate. So seeing Frank make solid, soulful pop music that isn't based on schtick is in itself impressive.

Still, though, as much as I like the guy, I don't think he's a savior. He makes some good music, and that is all. I quite hate it when artists are pegged as "geniuses" so early in their careers. It skews the whole goddamn process of absorbing their music. And the word "genius" is thrown around far too liberally these days. And yes, I realize that's a ridiculous thing for a Kanye West fan to say, but I wish Time had never called him the "smartest man in pop" (or whatever the title was), because it just set him up for the very public melodrama for which he's now known. The guy can't say a thing without having it measured against his alleged "genius" status. Yeah, I think he's great, but I could have done without all the media cocksucking. It turned me off of Kanye for YEARS.

But yeah, Frank Ocean. Shrug.

[louder]

Thug said he named every track on Jeffery after one of his idols. There's a song bizarrely titled "Harambe", after the gorilla who got shot and soon turned into an Internet meme. When I hear the song, that name actually makes a bit sense, not because of the content but because his energy on it reminds me of an angry gorilla.

On "Guwop", he features Migos and Young Scooter, who along with Young Thug himself owe their careers to Gucci Mane, who mentored them and featured them on his mixtapes back when they were just some random dudes from Atlanta (Guwop is one of his monikers).

"Future Swag" just sounds like Young Thug making a Future type song. It has his signature sound and he emulates his delivery.

"RiRi" samples Rihanna's Work.

I don't get the other track titles yet though, probably just a bunch of dudes he idolizes.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Man it really got to a point where I already get annoyed just from hearing him bringing up Frank or solely mentioning his name again. Ugh.

I still like Frank though, don't get me wrong.

I wonder how my girlfriend feels after 7 years of Sonic Youth and Kanye talk. I mean, I'm a bit of an old fuck, so I don't think I really do that incessant, naggy fanboy thing (anymore), but I wouldn't be surprised if she wanted to put a gun in her mouth. Hah.

(Actually she's been blasting Graduation and MBDTF a lot lately, on her own. I'll come home and it will just be playing, and she'll be singing along. Which is cool. I think she's getting excited for the concert )

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Thug said he named every track on Jeffery after one of his idols. There's a song bizarrely titled "Harambe", after the gorilla who got shot and soon turned into an Internet meme. When I hear the song, that name actually makes a bit sense, not because of the content but because his energy on it reminds me of an angry gorilla.

On "Guwop", he features Migos and Young Scooter, who along with Young Thug himself owe their careers to Gucci Mane, who mentored them and featured them on his mixtapes back when they were just some random dudes from Atlanta (Guwop is one of his monikers).

"Future Swag" just sounds like Young Thug making a Future type song. It has his signature sound and he emulates his delivery.

"RiRi" samples Rihanna's Work.

I don't get the other track titles yet though, probably just a bunch of dudes he idolizes.

When I first heard "Kanye West" (the first track from Jeffery that I played, as I'm sure you can imagine) I was sure I heard references to Ye, Chicago, etc. Then I checked the lyrics out, and I was like, "uuuhhhhh"... Because of course it's just slippery pussy this, slippery pussy that — the only possible 'Ye reference being in the "middle fingers up" line or whatever. And even with that, who knows?

From what I gather the whole "idol" thing is a bit tongue in cheek.

Hey, have you listened to Everybody Lookin yet?

[louder]

Yeah, Everybody Lookin is good. Mike Will and Zaytoven really put in work and laced Gucci with some fire ass trap beats. Gucci spits some impressive flows, infectious hooks and his oddball sense of humor is still there (there's a song about proudly admitting he got robbed??). I enjoyed it.

[louder]

I think that "Barter 6" title, although disguised as a tribute to his hero, was actually some sort of a backhanded compliment. The way I see it, it meant that Wayne's time has come and Thug is here to replace him. The fact it featured Birdman sending empty threats on his verse speaks volumes too.

[louder]

Prima Donna short movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxw1Zef3EO0

Lovin' it. This is making me appreciate the EP much more. Wow.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

I think that "Barter 6" title, although disguised as a tribute to his hero, was actually some sort of a backhanded compliment. The way I see it, it meant that Wayne's time has come and Thug is here to replace him. The fact it featured Birdman sending empty threats on his verse speaks volumes too.

Yeah, I thought we'd established this. It was very clearly either an outright insult or part of some calculated YMCMG marketing melodrama to bolster Wayne's falling stock. But I kind of doubt it was the latter, because Wayne's stock has never been lower.

Someone at work admitted to believing Lik Wayne was dead not long ago. I corrected him of corse, and said he just spit his best verse in ages on the new Chance the Rapper album... to which the kid said, ..."And there's no CHANCE I'm going to listen to it... Hahahaha!"

I think I may have blacked out with rage for a second. I definitely gave him a look that cannot be approximated by SYG's smiley roster.
That was the most "kids today" moment of the year for me.