[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Charles Jones!

Pete Chillcut!

SuchSuch - I wasn't ignoring anything, the question was addressed to, Rob. However, I don't see Harden being a big flopper. Most of the fouls made against James is when he is moving toward the basket / in the act of shooting. Sure, he sells it, but I've seen nothing to the extent of "changing rules" as you were referring.

Why celebrate in March is a good question that I don't have an answer for, but I will see what I can discover.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Bytor.. come off it man. Ive been a big harden in the past but his flailing arms flop is getting worse than KD's.. its too the point where i honestly would support an Andrew Bynum or Dexter Pittman moment and that shames me but SOMEBODY got to make Harden EARN all those lame FTs

And i never suggested changing rules, rather just enforcing the new rule already in place. The KD rule states that players must clearly be in act of shooting not merely just throwing their arms in the air. And yes, just check youtube you'll find plenty of examples. Im not denying that Harden gets real contact, im debating that he is ever actually in the axt of shooting hence a shooting foul!

[Rob Instigator]

My take on Harden and flopping.

I am from the old Barkley, Anthony Mason, NO SOFT FOULS school of thought. The flops will stop as soon as power forwards and centers begin to smack the lane penetrators around again. Once you are knocked down HARD you will not seek to create flops. I hate flops. I hated it when Jordan would do it. I hated it when Reggie Miller would do it. The king of flops in my book was Karl Malone. I hated that fuck.


This Texans team is built to get 20 points a game from free throws and then around 40 pts a game from three point shots. mcHale was and always will be a cheater, so now he teaches our Rockets how to cheat.

[Rob Instigator]

the real reason they honored the 10th anniversary in March is that this was when everyone could make it to Houston. nothing more than that I am sure.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

My all time top 10..

MJ SG
Magic PG
Lebron SF
Duncan PF (ugh i hate the guy but respect his game)
Shaq C

Bench
Kobe SG
Nash PG (yup)
Pippen SF
Karl Malone PF
Hakeem C

Third team (runner ups)
DWade SG
John Stockton PG
Larry Legend SF
Pat Ewing PF
Kareem C

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

My take on Harden and flopping.

I am from the old Barkley, Anthony Mason, NO SOFT FOULS school of thought. The flops will stop as soon as power forwards and centers begin to smack the lane penetrators around again. Once you are knocked down HARD you will not seek to create flops. I hate flops. I hated it when Jordan would do it. I hated it when Reggie Miller would do it. The king of flops in my book was Karl Malone. I hated that fuck.

Agreed completely hence why i was calling for bynum/pitmann.. no. I don't really want a dirty play but a nice, clean and legal OG HARD FOUL is clearly necessary at teams are scared cuz like KD last year the refs have clearly anointed Harden with the MVP and nobody wants to get eejected or suspended as the bad boy era is over. NBA is a more successful brand and business now and i for one agree.. it was RACIST to have all the "big black guys" fighting on the court all the time, i applaud the way the league cut down on immature and inappropriate shit like that BUT i still support some hard fouls here and there.. whiteside knocked lebron on his ass so hard it reminded me of the Shaq Effect and made me nostalgic but it WAS NOT a dirty play and Lebron had no hard feelings..

mcHale was and always will be a cheater, so now he teaches our Rockets how to cheat.

THATS WHY I LOVE YOU ROB. YOU'RE A STRAIGHT SHOOTER

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

And growing up laker nation im glad we can share our mutual disgust for Karl Malone, the only reason i celebrated MJ and the Bulls is they always got my revenge against West Conference rivals like Portland, Utah, and Phoenix

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

SOMEBODY got to make Harden EARN all those lame FTs

I think it has more to do with:

A) Harden is faster than most expect.

B) Most players aren't sure how best to defend him.

I believe Harden's game on both sides of the ball has greatly improved due to his time as a starter on the "All Star" team he was a member of this past summer.

In my opinion, Olajuwon's game, moves, fundamentals were far more superior than Shaqs.

John Stockton holds two of the NBA's All Time statistical categories and you still have them third team......

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Bytor your points are true for those times when Harden legitimately goes in the paint for a REAL shot attempt but what about those times he just drives and throws his hands in the air? Proof is in his total lack of "and-1"s and how he has as many FTA as FGA in many games

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

ALSO I TOTALLY AGREE THAT HAKEEM'S "MOVES" IN THE POST WERE FUNDAMENTALLY SUPERIOR TO SHAQ BUT SHAQ WAS MUCH MORE OF BRUTE FORCE that nobody could defend or stop. Indeed, if shaq had actually gave fucks about basketball and honed his craft he could have easily managed a 40/20 average across a season.. guy actually SUCKED at basketball things like dribbling and shooting but made up for it with sheer and overwhelming physicality

And i have Stockton as 3rd because Magic won 5 championships on 9 Finala Appearances and 11 WCF and i personally believe Nash to be a superior ball handler and definitely better shooter

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Proof is in his total lack of "and-1"s and how he has as many FTA as FGA in many games

James Harden has one of the all time highest FGA to points ratio in league history, unlike crap shooters like Kobe or Allen Iverson who regularly needed 30+ attempts per game to make their averages.

The only Rockets games I see are the ones that are Nationally televised. I simply haven't heard anyone else complain or point out that Harden's MVP season is due to flopping.

Olajuwon swept a younger, bigger more dominate Shaq in the NBA Finals!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Bytor, again, its that he has as many FTA as FGA is the smoking gun to his flopping.. and the lack of "and-1"s.. again i actually like Harden, but the flopping is just embarrassing at this point. Rob gets it. Deep down inside, you know you get it too..

And no, young Shaq was NOT more dominant Shaq, dominant Shaq was LA Laker era Shaq when he simply outmuscled every defender in the league. This is not diss to Hakeem btw, again I already said Hakeem was "the better basketball player" but in the end clearly Shaq was better with more rings, Finals appearances, and Conference Finals.. now Kareem has better stats than Shaq but 1-on-1 who thinks Kareem could even remotely defend Shaq?

[Bytor Peltor]

Shaq vs. Oljuwon was set up as a pay-perview, but Shaq backed out.

Shaq NEVER did this to an MVP

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Oh, its a fair debate, i just personally think Shaq is the more dominant center than any other in NBA history.. remember Hakeem had other bigs to help him, Shaq never had a "twin towers" kind of team

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Harden literally has almost twice as many FTA as Lebron yet they both drive to basket at similar rates, have similar stat lines, and similar points in the paint numbers... hmmmmmmmm

[Bytor Peltor]

James Harden goes off for 44 points tonight at Indiana!

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

.. remember Hakeem had other bigs to help him, Shaq never had a "twin towers" kind of team

The "Twin Towers" aka Dream and Sampson only played three seasons together......but they did send the Showtime Lakers home!

Dream didn't have a single "all-star" type teammate on his first championship team:

Scott Brooks
Matt Bullard
Sam Cassell
Earl Cureton
Mario Ellie
Carl Herrea
Robert Horry
Chris Jent
Vernon Maxwell
Richard Petruska
Eric Riley
Larry Robinson
Otis Thorpe
Kenny Smith

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Thanks for clarifying. I still vote with Shaq and love Hakeem for different reasons. Harden tonight had ten made field goals, 21 made free throws.. 21 FGA, 22 FTA.. Sighs..

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

James Harden goes off for 44 points tonight at Indiana!

James Harden as Rocket vs Indy with Paul George:
4 gms, 79 pts , 22-74 FG (30%), 20-26 FT.

Indy without Paul George:
2 gms, 89 pts, 22-39 FG (56%), 35-37 FT

Tonight was the 27th time since '85-86, a player has scored 44 or more pts on 21 or fewer FG. No one's done it more than 2x...except Harden, he's done it 4x

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

Tonight was the 27th time since '85-86, a player has scored 44 or more pts on 21 or fewer FG. No one's done it more than 2x...except Harden, he's done it 4x

Again, isn't that really the problem? Harden scored just 23 of those points on FGs..

I know im just basically trolling you at this point, and honestly i just cant seem to resist the temptation

 

[Rob Instigator]

wilt chamberlain was more DOMINANT than Shaq.

100 pt game?
average of 40 pts a season?
average of 50 POINTS A SEASON?
9 TIMES average of 30 pts and 20 rebounds for a season?

shit son, Shaq comes in at number TWO