[!@#$%!]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttt

[demonrail666]

Yeah. Gotta give it to Brazil. I think a lot of people (myself included) were waiting for them to fuck up, but they did it, and under the very pressure I thought they'd freeze under - albeit against a Spain side that, even given the factor of fatigue, do seem to be missing something.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Trama

!@#$%!, hombre, Scolari tampoco es tonto, eh?

i take back everything i said about felipao.

i heard in the commentary (univision, not espn which was utter shit) that he had spent 10 hours watching and rewatching the barcelona/bayern CL match, trying to figure out how to kill spain.

good man!

(also, i thought del bosque made some big errors, like not starting navas)

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Spain [...] seem to be missing something.

...Messi?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

...Messi?

Haha, but they do seem to be missing a certain precision in their passin and an overall intensity to their play. I'm sure they are tired but no more than they would've been in other post-season tournaments, when they've looked almost unbeatable. And while it's a cliche to talk about teams needing a plan b, it's something Spain do seem to lack.

It'll be interesting to see where the bookies put them in the run up to the WC. They're obviously capable of winning it but I'm not sure I'd make them favourites anymore. Brazil will be obvious candidates now, along with I suppose Germany and Argentina. Spain too but not with anything like the same confidence as there was in previous tournaments.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Haha, but they do seem to be missing a certain precision in their passin and an overall intensity to their play. I'm sure they are tired but no more than they would've been in other post-season tournaments, when they've looked almost unbeatable. And while it's a cliche to talk about teams needing a plan b, it's something Spain do seem to lack.

It'll be interesting to see where the bookies put them in the run up to the WC. They're obviously capable of winning it but I'm not sure I'd make them favourites anymore. Brazil will be obvious candidates now, along with I suppose Germany and Argentina. Spain too but not with anything like the same confidence as there was in previous tournaments.

lack of precision is because brazil tamped them in their own half just like bayern did to barça. overall intensity is the fatigue-- del bosque played the same fucking 11 he played on the semis, didn't he?

and yes the lack of a plan b is what people have been talking about. they did not know what the fuck to do.

meanwhile, people like javi martinez wasted their energy on the bench while del bosque continued the same old shit.

spain just won the U21 cup though so they have some awesome players coming up but if they stick to the same old tired squad they will continue to crumble.

[h8kurdt]

Well that was a brilliant match. I think Brazil stunned everyone at how they pulled that one off by such an big margin. Spain's defence really was shocking though. So many stupid mistakes made by them

Neymar....NeymarNeymarNeymar....yeah I'll give him this-he can play. The fact that it took 3 Spanish players to get him down when he got a run said it all.

So Spain can be beaten in a big way. Only took 6 years!

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

lack of precision is because brazil tamped them in their own half just like bayern did to barça. overall intensity is the fatigue-- del bosque played the same fucking 11 he played on the semis, didn't he?

I'll accept the fatigue to some degree and Brazil definitely contained them but a lot of the missed passes were unforced errors. Just sloppy and, as H8kurdt said, defensively they were way below standard, even given the absence of Puyol. I definitely agree that they now need to start looking at players like Martinez.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'll accept the fatigue to some degree and Brazil definitely contained them but a lot of the missed passes were unforced errors. Just sloppy and, as H8kurdt said, defensively they were way below standard, even given the absence of Puyol. I definitely agree that they now need to start looking at players like Martinez.

i love puyol but he is like, 300 years old! he didn't play most of last year due to injury! teams gotta renew or perish (e.g., uruguay). piqué is too busy worrying about shakira. up front, torres the giant lesbian needs to go also-- he only scores against tahiti and nigeria. del bosque for some reason loves him.

zonal marking says spain was beat on "pace and power". martinez would have given them exactly that, and resting some of the most exhausted players i think would have allowed them to match that a little better. cazorla? soldado? and if arbeloa was going to be subbed so soon he shouldn't have started in the first place (arbeloa is 30, neymar 21)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

For me seeing Spain finally Fall feels like what it must have meant for the rest of America when the Lakers finally lost in 2004 and then again in 2008. As for me? I am excited about the upcoming Gold Cup! In 2011 America got clowned here in LA at the Rose Bowl (sighs..) It was a rough summer what with the Miami Heat losing to Dallas and then the USMNT falling just a few missed plays short of the Gold Cup. With Heat now having won back-to-back Championships AND the USMNT finally starting to find a rhythm and look good under Klinsmann and a Germanic style while Mexico is slumping terribly in the World Cup Qualifiers I dare say this summer might be revenge. I seriously think the US can do it and there is no better time for Landon Donovan to make a Michael Jordan like reappearance!

Haha! By a crazy coincidence, two of those Quarterfinal games will played at my two NFL teams' stadiums, the ATL Falcons GeorgiaDome and also the Baltimore Ravens' M&T Bank Stadium.

[demonrail666]

I take on board the "pace and power" point and you're right about Puyol but I do think Spain have lost a bit of their past urgency. It certainly sets everything up for a fascinating WC, though.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Spain have lost a bit of their past urgency.

right, but there might be a number of reasons why they looked more subdued. i don't think they didn't "want" to win though, it's just that brazil wanted it much more, with them being the hosts and one year away from their world cup and what not. they way the team and the crowd kept singing the national anthem after the standard recording was over was a big show of that. yeah the brazilians wanted it really bad. to me, that incredible save by david luiz encapsulates their whole attitude-- they gave it all. well, once they were up 3-0 they slowed down a bit but if they really wanted they probably could have made it 4-0.

but mind you, they could give it all because they are more accustomed to the heat, had an extra day of rest, didn't play overtime in the prior match, and fielded a younger team all-around. plus, of course, the emotional aspect of it. they wanted it really really bad.

[TheMadcapLaughs]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but mind you, they could give it all because they are more accustomed to the heat, had an extra day of rest, didn't play overtime in the prior match, and fielded a younger team all-around. plus, of course, the emotional aspect of it. they wanted it really really bad.

i was thinking about this "accustomed to the heat" thing. most of the brazilian players in the starting 11 play over in Europe (baring Neymar and Fred (hmm, oddly the ones who score, never mind that!). do you think since they grew up playing in brazil this stays with them because a lot of the players play in england, spain (barcelona and madrid are cold as fuck in the winter!), and even russia (hulk!). I'm just wondering if thats a real advantage for such an international team.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by TheMadcapLaughs

i was thinking about this "accustomed to the heat" thing. most of the brazilian players in the starting 11 play over in Europe (baring Neymar and Fred (hmm, oddly the ones who score, never mind that!). do you think since they grew up playing in brazil this stays with them because a lot of the players play in england, spain (barcelona and madrid are cold as fuck in the winter!), and even russia (hulk!). I'm just wondering if thats a real advantage for such an international team.

i think ultimately it's probably more psychological than anything else though there might be some pphysiological adaptations (as it happens with altitude). i know for a fact the european cold can be quite atrocious for a lot of south americans (so you'll see them wearing gloves, etc.), but you know, everyone has to learn to suck it up and get used to it-- and so you have hulk playing for st petersburg. but the reverse doesn't always happen, i.e. european footballers don't often have to make a living in the tropics. well, some maybe do, but they probably don't play for their national teams anyway.

[demonrail666]

Yeah, I wouldn't put much emphasis on the heat. Brazil definitely seemed to want it more, but Spain were similarly not that impressive against Italy, either. The one factor I don't think we've mentioned yet is the degree to which Spain are missing Alonso. I'm not sure he'd have been the ultimate difference maker but he's almost as pivotal as Xavi to their overall shape.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Alonso.

you're right, but again, he's gonna be 32 1/2 come the next world cup. and while medical advances are increasing the average longevity of players, they are also increasing the performance of 22 year olds.

[demonrail666]

Exactly. I'm not saying Spain are suddenly bad just that they're an ageing squad and inevitably aren't as sharp as when they were at their peak a few years ago. They have great young players coming in but it'll obviously take some time for them to move from being transitionary figures, required to fit into the shape defined by Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta, etc., to having a system built around them.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Exactly. What I'm saying is that Spain isbad because that they're an aging squad and inevitably aren't as sharp as when they were at their peak a few years ago.

Fixed that for you

Spain have reached what in NBA we call Championship fatigue. In basketball, every few years one team gets so fucking good that they make the Finals for 2-4 consecutive years, and this correlates to about 50-90 EXTRA games than just the regular season. NO group of humans, even with a lifetime supply of Deer Antler Spray can maintain dominance across that many fucking games. They inevitably slip. It happened to the 80s Lakers. It happened to the 90s Bulls. It happened to the 2000s Lakers. It happened again to the 2008-2011 Lakers. It will happen to the Miami Heat who just played three Finals appearance winning back to back. It just happened to Spain, and I predict their recent years of dominance have come to an end. Further I hope more so embarrassingly than gracefully. Oh, did I mention I don't like Spain?

Also, no love for the Gold Cup?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Exactly. I'm not saying Spain are suddenly bad just that they're an ageing squad and inevitably aren't as sharp as when they were at their peak a few years ago. They have great young players coming in but it'll obviously take some time for them to move from being transitionary figures, required to fit into the shape defined by Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta, etc., to having a system built around them.

What I've been trying to drive at I suppose is that interim tournaments like these are ideal to test out new players and tactical schemes but instead they've kept beating they same old tired horse-- it's not just age or motivation but people have now figured out how to beat them tactically--and they haven't addressed that. So it's a two-pronged challenge.

Their U21 team was fantastic btw. I had a recording of the final but I deleted it. They should give some of those whippersnappers a chance ha ha ha.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

What I've been trying to drive at I suppose is that interim tournaments like these are ideal to test out new players and tactical schemes but instead they've kept beating they same old tired horse

I can't disagree with that, although it's fair to say that not many of the younger players who did feature really shone either. But ultimately I agree.

[h8kurdt]

So if it is then they can look at being the only team to win the euro-world cup-euro in one run? Yeah I think I could live with that if I was in the Spanish team.

HOWEVER whilst I may not be their biggest fan, you honestly think this is the end for them and that they'll not have a decent run in the world cup? Like people have been with Barcelona (including me) people are too quick to count one loss as the end of an era. How fickle footy fans can be.

This is to suchfriends btw.