[demonrail666]

So is it common for US sports' fans to switch teams like that? I've supported West Ham all my life knowing they'll never realistically win anything and even when at times they've been utterly dislikable. It's just that's where I'm from. And part of the enjoyment is a doomed loyalty. Otherwise we'd all just be Man U or Bayern or Barcelona fans.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'd go even further, I think an out and out merger would benefit both regions. As you say, CONCACAF is just too uncompetitive, with Mexico and the USA pretty much guaranteed to qualify, even in second gear. It'd also stop the traditional farce of CONCACAF's third placed side automatically qualifying for the WC and getting trounced in every game. The media may like Trinidad, or Jamaica but do they really deserve to be in a WC when far better countries from more competitive divisions are left behind? Meanwhile CONMEBOL has too few countries so the same teams keep playing each other over and over again.

They also need to reduce the teams that qualify from Asia. It's absurd that they get the just one less place than South America. (Uzbekistan more likely to qualify than Peru?)

It'll never happen so long as Blatter's in charge, though, seeing as he seems to think the WC is all about no-hoper sides like Jamaica participating rather than the best ones.

i don't know a lot about blatter or uzbekistan football, and peru has a nice team that's not going to win any world cups but could put on a decent show on a good day. agreed on the low south american representation-- that is because it's a "continent" with few countries, so proportionally it could be seen as a high count already-- the only team that truly sucks there is bolivia; even venezuela has made huge progress in the last couple of decades-- all the "bolivariano" countries who traditionally were outcasts really began to rise in the 80s (and venezuela is the last one to do so). so the number of good teams has increased.

anyway, for selfish reasons (i.e., i want a good show) i say it would also be good for usa football to start setting its sights higher, obviously--and playing with its continental peers (or "aspiring peers" as it's called) is the obvious next step. going from concacaf to the world cup it's too much of a leap, like jumping from elementary school to college. you can't train against canada and then go face italy (unless you're talking ice hockey). but if you've been regularly facing argentina (as tiny uruguay does, it's the most played iinternational rivalry in history) then you're ready for anything.

[demonrail666]

I agree in terms of making games more entertaining and we always want to see the team we support improve, but I don't know if a change in division would result in any really significant leap in quality for the US, at least when it comes to major tournaments. As I said to Suchfiends, given the right group, the USA look like a solid last-16, quarter final side to me. That puts them at around the same level as England. Beyond that and you're talking about the level of teams like Germany, Brazil, Spain, Italy, Holland, Argentina, etc, which, I'm sure you'd agree, would take far more than a change in division to even come close to. If anything, considering the quality of your domestic league and the fact you've still not produced a world class player yet, I'd say the USA punches above its weight.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'd say the USA punches above its weight.

I can agree to that, but if anything, that makes it all the more enjoyable, we're a scrappy ass underdawg that can get a few great surprise punches against heavy-weight teams and knock em on their ass when they least expected it!

Originally Posted by demonrail666

So is it common for US sports' fans to switch teams like that? I've supported West Ham all my life knowing they'll never realistically win anything and even when at times they've been utterly dislikable. It's just that's where I'm from. And part of the enjoyment is a doomed loyalty. Otherwise we'd all just be Man U or Bayern or Barcelona fans.

Also @ MadCap..
If you're city doesn't have a team then people tend to sort of more or less pick one. For me, after the Raiders collapsed in 2002/03 I decided to get into the Ravens because of their smash mouth defense and hated on persona. Raiders left LA, I supported them for almost ten years after they left, an that stupid fucking franchise just kept making boneheaded decisions, costing us a HOF coach (who went on to Tampa Bay and subsequently whooped Raider's ass in the Superbowl) and many great players. I figured, fuck it, if Raiders left LA, why have I been so faithfully supporting them for several years after? All Ravens ever since, though I'm developing a sick bromantic crush on the Hotlanta Falcons.

As to basketball. In LA Lakers got just as ugly, Kobe got accused of raping a woman, the locker room was a disaster, our beloved Shaq left town in a rage VOWING to win a revenge Championship, and the Zen Master got fired! Meanwhile LA legend Pat Riley has this young phenom named Dwyane Wade and Shaq is convinced, and that was enough to convince me. Two years later? I was celebrating Shaq's revenge Championship which he did indeed promise to give (and had kobe not chased Shaq out of town would have been in Los Angeles). So I been with the Heat. However, I like to follow teams from both conferences, East and West, so I got back into the Lakers after the hoopla died down and Phil came back. I was at the Laker parades dancing in the street for real! Great moment for Los Angeles.

Y'all can call me front running for following several teams concurrently but I really enjoy my sport, its just coincidence that several of them in the past ten years of my following them won it all. Besides, who the fuck is honestly bandwagoning on Baltimore?? Ravens got to be the LEAST RESPECTED TWO-TIME SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS in history!!!

[demonrail666]

Yeah, the franchise thing is an obvious issue that only very rarely occurs in football/soccer. One day the Cardinals are in Missouri, next they're in Arizona. That would irritate the fuck out of me and make it impossible for me to feel any kind of real deep rooted loyalty to any NFL side. And in baseball, aren't certain older people in NY still pissed off about the Brooklyn Dodgers moving to LA? It does happen here but only very very rarely and it's massively frowned upon when it does.

But either way, if you're from somewhere without a team then it's inevitable you'd choose your team with a bit more calculation, whether it's based on success, style of play, an interest in the place they're from, liking their fans, or following a player. I obviously don't have a local NBA team so I follow the Phoenix Suns just because I like Westerns, which I tend to associate with Arizona.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, the franchise thing is an obvious issue that only very rarely occurs in football/soccer. One day the Cardinals are in Missouri, next they're in Arizona. That would irritate the fuck out of me and make it impossible for me to feel any kind of real deep rooted loyalty to any NFL side. And in baseball, aren't certain older people in NY still pissed off about the Brooklyn Dodgers moving to LA? It does happen here but only very very rarely and it's massively frowned upon when it does.

.

NFL teams rarely relocate, the handful of times it has been heated. When the Colts left Baltimore, Baltimore fans vowed revenge, and stole the Browns and became the Ravens and went on to win two Championships within 16 years. Colts winning a Superbowl in Indianapolis was fuel to the fire in Baltimore. All this fueled Cleveland's fire to rebuild a new Browns team, only, really, they shouldn't have, and for 14 years the Browns have been the definition of a shit team. The Cardinals seem to work out ok in Arizona. That and Saint Louis got their revenge for losing the Cardinals by luring away the Rams who went from irrelevant but well-loved here in Los Angeles to Superbowl Champions. There are still plenty of die-hard Rams fans here in LA. Oakland rekindled their love affair with Raiders after Raiders ditched Oakland to win some Superbowls in Los Angeles, only to ditch LA to make it to the Superbowl and lose.

As to baseball, well, we in LA bleed the Dodgers, it is one of our few civic franchises and unifying cultures here in LA, even the Lakers aren't that thoroughly embedded in LA's hearts. As such, we understand some folks in New York don't like us, well, that is fine, we don't like them boys on the Yankees neither! Interestingly, there is a whole segment of Los Angeles dedicated to NOT supporting the Lakers, these are the local LakerHaterz. However, considering that as many as half of all people living in Los Angeles weren't born in Los Angeles, this seems reasonable, that they wouldn't like the Lakers because they probably came from somewhere with beef/jealousy/sour grapes..

Again, there are a lot of cities without teams, so it is common for Americans to follow different teams or to switch because there is a difference between local loyalty, and developing a following for a team.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

However, considering that as many as half of all people living in Los Angeles weren't born in Los Angeles, this seems reasonable, that they wouldn't like the Lakers because they probably came from somewhere with beef/jealousy/sour grapes..

Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. So out of curiosity, are there MBL, NBA, NFL that're generally considered more likeable/dislikable than most? Local loyalties/rivalries aside.

[TheMadcapLaughs]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. So out of curiosity, are there MBL, NBA, NFL that're generally considered more likeable/dislikable than most? Local loyalties/rivalries aside.

i would say the yankees are pretty hated. the patriots, people are sick of. pretty much all the best teams

suchfriends.... i understand what you are saying, but liking the heat is a bit much for me. you have to stick with your teams through the worst of times too.

[demonrail666]

So are there any teams people generally tend to quite like, even if they're not necessarily a proper fan of theirs? I always thought the Greenbay Packers were a bit like that in the NFL, unless you're a Bears fan (right?)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by TheMadcapLaughs

i would say the yankees are pretty hated. the patriots, people are sick of. pretty much all the best teams

suchfriends.... i understand what you are saying, but liking the heat is a bit much for me. you have to stick with your teams through the worst of times too.

You again suppose that I left the Lakers permanently. 2004-2007 put a bad taste in my mouth, yeah, I was pretty jaded, and yeah, I was celebrating Shaq's Championship with all the patented LakerHaterz here in LA. However, I grew up on Lakers, on Magic, even enjoyed the Van Exel/Divac era, remember distinctly the joy of snagging up Shaq, back when Kobe was whatever. We had good times. But it made that ugliness of 2004-07 all the more potent. I admit, I bandwagoned to the Heat years ago because of Shaq, but they managed to keep my attention. When Lakers got their heads back after having been humbled, they also lured me back. So, yeah, I essentially follow the Lakers AND the Heat by a weird default, and, yeah, I know it sounds lame, but I didn't jump on a Miami bandwagon last year like ten million other people. I been through hard times with Lakers AND Heat basketball, and again, I just like sport. As to LA? Lakers will rebuild quickly, and return to post-season relevance within 2-3 years.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

and if Lakers played the Heat in the Finals, I'd be rooting for LA in a heartbeat!!

....

 

Poor Galaxy, we gonna get stomped on!

[TheMadcapLaughs]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

and if Lakers played the Heat in the Finals, I'd be rooting for LA in a heartbeat!!
!

this i like!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheMadcapLaughs again.

[demonrail666]

Anyone watching the Bayern-Barca friendly?

All meaningless of course but good so far. Ribery's having a great game, running rings around Montoya. Bayern deserve to be ahead (1-0 ht) but it's close enough to be interesting. Inevitably weird though, watching Pep celebrate a goal against Barca.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Anyone watching the Bayern-Barca friendly?

All meaningless of course but good so far. Ribery's having a great game, running rings around Montoya. Bayern deserve to be ahead (1-0 ht) but it's close enough to be interesting. Inevitably weird though, watching Pep celebrate a goal against Barca.

i can't find in on my MOTHERFUCKING TV.

 

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

So is it common for US sports' fans to switch teams like that? I've supported West Ham all my life knowing they'll never realistically win anything and even when at times they've been utterly dislikable. It's just that's where I'm from. And part of the enjoyment is a doomed loyalty. Otherwise we'd all just be Man U or Bayern or Barcelona fans.

HELL TO THE FUCK NO

Most people follow their home team, and when the fan moves somewhere else, they still follow their original team.

[demonrail666]

So it ended up 2-0 to Bayern but by the second half Barca had no first team players on the pitch and Bayern fans were booing, either at their own team struggling to score even more or at the fact Barcelona quite obviously couldn't give a shit about the whole thing. Have to feel sorry for the Bayern fans who paid to watch it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

So it ended up 2-0 to Bayern but by the second half Barca had no first team players on the pitch and Bayern fans were booing, either at their own team struggling to score even more or at the fact Barcelona quite obviously couldn't give a shit about the whole thing. Have to feel sorry for the Bayern fans who paid to watch it.

oh man. i still wanted to watch.

meanwhile here i am trying to figure out how to start getting the bundesliga in a couple of weeks ( begins august 7).

and the audi thing on july 31/aug 1.

what channel did you see it on? or was it one of those shitty streams?

[demonrail666]

I watched it on Sky

It was interesting enough but if this is how Barcelona responds to the deal Bayern set up for a series of friendlies, Bayern have been robbed. There needs to be some guarantee that over the 90 minutes at least some regular first team players are on the pitch. The Barcelona side that came out for the second half was Oier, Kiko Femenía, Gómez, Planas, Patric, Ilie, Espinosa, Quintillà, Roman, Dongou, Nieto. Compared with the team Bayern put out for the second half, Starke, Rafinha, Dante, Boeteng, Alaba, Thiago, Lahm, Kroos, Ribery, Shaqiri, Mandzukic. Although in fairness by the end of the 90 a lot of those had been replaced too. But still.

[!@#$%!]

who, who, who and who, etc.?

damn...