[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I think Dempsey went to Europe on that whole, "I got to prove myself on the big stage" like so many Euro basketball players come to the NBA (20% of the current NBA are foreign born players)..

However, while he played great, he by Euro standards didn't necessarily prove anything other than what was already known, he is a pretty great footballer. That being said, that's why I think he came back to play in the US. USMNT is getting increasingly popular here, so might as well settle in a way which will make it easier to focus on playing for the Americans and an American audience. If you're by and large going to have a relatively mediocre career, why not do it somewhere where mediocrity is more subtly appreciated? Hence return to US. In Europe, fizzle out. Play the same way in America? Be a star! Its the David Beckham model for late career success. In !@#$%! terms, Kramer in the dojo? Maybe. But its his career. What is the most surprising is that he didn't go to Houston which is (a) the second best MLS team next to Galaxy and (b) essentially hometown for him. Going to Seattle if anything shows how serious Dempsey is about playing for the MLS, it wasn't just a homecoming, its a career move.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

After they've shipped his body over from Manchester maybe

traded for the unearthed corpse of paul scholes

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Anyway, something a bit more concrete, Dempsey's gone back to the US! Not surprised he left Spurs but very surprised he's gone back to the MLS.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...ticle/10915534

 

wow, the chickens coming home to roost! (in a good way). that's *great* news for the mls.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

Great for the US too!

[demonrail666]

I think he made the right decision. He could've carried on in Europe but, echoing Suchfriends' point, the competition here is now so intense that unless you're among the top tier in your position in the world, you'll always be just another very good player. Good luck to him and, as has already been said, a great move for the MLS.

I only hope being closer to home doesn't inspire him to revive his musical interests

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Di8QT98Zk

[!@#$%!]

now if they only eliminate this stupid "conference" shit and normalize the season and competition format we'll be on to something one can reasonably follow.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

now if they only eliminate this stupid "conference" shit and normalize the season and competition format we'll be on to something one can reasonably follow.

They're trying to be more like American sports which have two competing Conferences, be it NBA, NFL, or MLB. What the Conference effect does for American sports is it creates instant rivalries. Inter-Conference rivalries develop as teams prepare for the inevitability of playing against each other for the championship. A lot of MLB fans are actually PISSED about the increase of inter-league play between the AL and NL, they say its watering down the Wold Series which used to be more exciting because inter-league teams traditionally only met for the trophy. In the NFL and NBA, inter-conference teams to play against each other, in NBA every team plays against every team, but in the NFL they rotate the schedules and some inter-conference teams don't play each other for years. It makes the potentiality of meeting in the Championship a bit MORE excited, so for an American audience have competing conferences makes sport more followable, in the sense that it keeps rivalries more obvious.

[!@#$%!]

i don't know or care about other sports, but i thought these "conferences" had to do with the size of the country and the time and expense it took to travel before airline deregulation.

these days air travel is a non-issue, but there is an established tradition in those other sports which is harder to break. borrowing those limitations from other sports to make it "palatable for americans" seems silly, just like the old "shootouts" at the end of a game when there was a tie.

right now the mls format is an incomprehensible clusterfuck where after pointless "conference" rivalry come the playoffs which negate all the hard work of a season. ugh! and until recently, a team from one conference could win the opposite conference. simply absurd.

other countries have this "cup" format parallel to the regular season , and are more open in that they allow other teams (FA cup, dfb pokal, copa del rey, etc).

maybe what they should do here is 2 tournaments: one with a single table that's won by points, another with a cup format that would allow other teams (e.g. 2nd division, us pro or whatever the fuck they call it) to get a chance to "kill giants".

and what would *really* spice things up instead of artificial "conference" rivalries is having actual promotion and relegation from and to a lesser league-- but hey, one step at a time, rome wasn't built in a day, so i'm willing to give it a couple of decades to get things right. it's definitely harder to build a following from the top-down instead of promoting from the grassroots.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i don't know or care about other sports, but i thought these "conferences" had to do with the size of the country and the time and expense it took to travel before airline deregulation.

Yes, that is the historiographical version, however after the Conference format stuck around, Americans got used to it, and its the expected format now. As you say, its not logistically needed..

these days air travel is a non-issue, but there is an established tradition in those other sports which is harder to break. borrowing those limitations from other sports to make it "palatable for americans" seems silly

That is true, but silliness is very much a part of American sport.

 

right now the mls format is an incomprehensible clusterfuck where after pointless "conference" rivalry come the playoffs which negate all the hard work of a season.

In the Conference system, all that hard work in the season is what carried you into the playoffs and also determine tournament seeding, so its not entirely wasted.

other countries have this "cup" format parallel to the regular season , and are more open in that they allow other teams (FA cup, dfb pokal, copa del rey, etc).

maybe what they should do here is 2 tournaments: one with a single table that's won by points, another with a cup format that would allow other teams (e.g. 2nd division, us pro or whatever the fuck they call it) to get a chance to "kill giants".

Now see that is actually more complicated. I don't like Euro league football because its a bit more complicated to keep up with current standings, future match-ups, and inter-team histories. The advantage of the Conference system is all that is self-contained, and that is in part why American sports has kept that system in place, post-technology advances. It, at least to me, seems simpler to keep up with things like standings and rivalries, especially across past seasons to monitor development or decline issues.

and what would *really* spice things up instead of artificial "conference" rivalries is having actual promotion and relegation from and to a lesser league--

But that is the thing, Conference rivalries aren't artificial, they're built on the reality of the experience of teams playing against each other routinely during season-play. Granted, its not as spicy a rivalry as play-off and championship rivalries, but for example, in the NFL the Ravens and Steelers have one of the biggest rivalries of any teams in the world. It has evolved into a heated play-off rivalry, yes, but its origins are in those two slugfests a year they call season games.

but hey, one step at a time, rome wasn't built in a day, so i'm willing to give it a couple of decades to get things right. it's definitely harder to build a following from the top-down instead of promoting from the grassroots.

I agree, but lets remember that elite spectator sports are an entertainment market first and foremost. We fans of sport may talk of talent and player skill, but lets be honest, if there isn't a marketable audience its a tree falling in the woods you know? The NBA before the 80s was a shit-kicking league, now its world-class and celebrity with an annual audience of 250,000,000 people. That is quite the evolution in 30 years. The sport has thrived and advanced in accompany with the increase in marketability and audience share. So essentially MLS will have to become more watched and supported before it can become more talented from the bottom-up. Keep bringing in top talent and increase the market-share, then as more fans come in THAT process will begin to build a farm system through colleges and amateur leagues (which are quite prevalent here in the US, albeit completely under the radar). What made the NBA so fucking great? It was kids on the black top in the streets playing ball dreaming of being the next Dr J or the next Magic Johnson, or the next MJ, or the next Kobe, or the next Lebron. As the elite talent becomes more marketed to a wider audience, it inspires kids and athletes to up their game. Now in the 2000s the NBA is better than ever in regards to talent and sport, and that is because the best players in the current league grew up their entire lives playing basketball aiming for that elite status. Give the MLS time, but with the USMNT becoming so much more popular and noticed by Americans, kids will start to want to be Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan or Tim Howard as much as they want to Kevin Durant or Adrian Peterson

[!@#$%!]

i don't have the time right now to answer point by point to everything you said, but just to add that, in the words of a former mls player, ""It doesn't matter what place you finish, as long as you just get into the playoffs". The so-called "seeding" isn't worth shit:

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz2b824Z8Qu

He proposes a different system of playoffs; I'd go further and say "fuck the playoffs". Do one comprehensive national league where everyone plays everyone home and away, and do one elimination cup.

It's really simple.

[!@#$%!]

ps- here a good article that looks at all sides of the issue and ends in support of the status quo but also recognizes its limitations

http://intothesix.com/2013/04/09/mls...-probably-not/

basically, it's obvious we're dealing with a temporary solution

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I see your points, but unfortunately MLS is in an American audience, and Americans are used to and familiar with things like seeding, play-offs, divisions, and conferences. Further, while seeding might not necessarily be that impacting now, MLS is only a few decades old, give it a minute. In the 1980s there were really only 5 great NBA teams, and the rest were fodder. Now? Seeding is everything. If MLS continues to advance and develop, those things like seeding or division rivalries might start to bear more classically American weight. MLS wants to be American soccer, not necessarily European football, and I can dig it, sort of, at least because of my being raised on similar formatted leagues like the NFL and the NBA. It helps make MLS more readily accessible, and that above all else is critical for MLS to grow. Nobody is fooling themselves, MLS doesn't think it can lure away European and South American audiences from those leagues, but perhaps a lot of casual American Euro-futbol fans might switch back as MLS gains weight. I'm not sure the restructuring you mentioned will do that, even if it will get MLS more aligned with the more elite style of leagues elsewhere..

Also that was a genius article which more or less agreed with both of us, in that the things you've suggested might work for MLS, but the things I've talked about are just the obvious realities of the American sports market, particularly where MLS is lucky to rank third in live audience. That MLS in live-audience ranked above the NBA is misleading, there are over 1200 games played total each year, so the NBA PURPOSEFULLY has smaller seating than it could to keep the market moving. Following the averages about 21,000,000 attend a live NBA game at some point during the season. MLS has a way to go to make that

[!@#$%!]

thing is, the "american audience" who watches MLS is the "american audience" that follows the premier league, la liga, or the mexican whatever it's called. i don't know ratings but i'd bet you fox soccer which broadcasts the prem gets higher ratings than the mls.

edit: look here:
Fox's taped British soccer tops MLS title game

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UgAdY1POm14

i think what the mls is doing is wrong in trying to "convert" non-"soccer" watchers into watchers. which isn't going to happen much.

so it half-asses in both directions.

look at this commissioner dude-- basically he wants nfl audiences to start watching mls. because he's an ex-nfl guy.

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2013/04/2...model-instead/

he's going to lose the people who love the sport while he tries to convince those who don't love it to start watching.

like, clearly he doesn't love it the way he loves american football. in other words, he's a fucking suit in this environment.

(okay, but seriously, no-- he's done a lot of good, but he's not delivering us to the promised land, we're just wandering the desert at the moment)

eh! i gotta get my german tv so i can watch serious business.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

But that is the catch. MLS isn't stupid. They know they can't necessarily lure those Premier league fans away, it'd be like the Turkish Basketball leagues trying to lure away NBA fans. NOT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The way MLS can continue to grow is to build a new and growing fanbase among American sport fans, and so it follows American friendly formats which Americans can more readily comprehend. If its too complicated, it might not draw in a casual audience. I think that as demonstrated by the increasing awareness and popularity of USMNT among Americans who are not traditional or elite soccer fans, there is potential for conversion by a casual American audience. Sport in America can admittedly be more shallow than sport in Europe, but it is what it is, and that casual and shallow market is what MLS has to tap into. If it can't convert Americans to become casual fans, it will never rise like the NBA did. Look at the evolution of NBA in America. In the early 1970s NBA was probably seen as ten times the laughing stock the MLS is today, even in the mid-1980s as it became increasingly celebrity, there was a serious lack of talent. As the NBA continued to capture the attention of casual America, it grew. The NBA didn't lure in a lot of fans of just basketball, because there weren't really that many aside from those who played basketball. However, within 20 years of the mid-1970s, NBA became part of America's collective consciousness. People who have NO IDEA about ANYTHING in basketball recognized Michael Jordan or later Kobe Bryant or now Lebron James. THAT is the potential which the MLS is trying to build, to become what American sports really is, a sport for a casual audience. Why is the NFL so damned successful? Its not he fanaticos like Rob, its the casual fans who watch a few games a season, who might tailgate at one game in their home town. Who might front run or fair-weather it up and buy some merchandise from NFL.com. Who might watch a few minutes of some games on Monday night after work. That is where the NBA has climbed, and what MLS can hope for. Diehard soccer fans? Probably will never be interested, if anything, as MLS gets more popular diehards might lose interest because now it has a novelty factor that will diminish with popularity.

[!@#$%!]

i'd catch mls in the afternoon after watching the prem in the morning if it was worth it.

the "new and growing audience" isn't going to be nba transplants, it's little kids who play and worship messi and cristiano ronaldo.

people are always going to get rah rah rah behind the national team regardless. patriotism doesn't equal love of a sport.

the diehard fans aren't hipsters looking to be "alternative". they just want a good show that's worth watching. so a better mls is only going to make it more attractive. right now, they turn to the premier league because that's where you get a decent show. (and then there's the people without meaning in their lives who need to draw their identity from tribal affiliation, but that's another story.)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

No, patriotism doesn't equate with love of sport, but it does equal exposure to a national audience, who may discover they have a liking for soccer whereas previously they never gave it a chance or even noticed. That, and American sports are weird like that. Casual fans pop up all the time, if the culture spreads wide enough to catch people in the drag net. Again, diehard fans are going to be way to picky to follow MLS for several years to come, in the meanwhile MLS wants to build up the casual audience. That is how American sports make the most of their money.

[!@#$%!]

eh, if that's what sells to the american masses then more power to them.

 

[demonrail666]

Clearly no love for the beautiful game from this guy

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Clearly no love for the beautiful game from this guy

 

he claims to like west ham! did you know? (i'm sure you did)

but that's just for pr. he's really a basketball guy though.

compare the expression:

 

[demonrail666]

Haha, yeah, which in a way kind of proves my original point.

Matt Damon's meant to be a fan too. God knows how that happened. Dave Grohl too, apparently.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but that's just for pr. he's really a basketball guy though.

Yes he does, he knows more about basketball than Bill Clinton knows about women