[schizophrenicroom]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Santa Fe was probably connected with the history of Spanish Florida

true, it just sticks out when nothing else really has a spanish influence around here. st aug is only two hours east though, i guess.

next few paychecks, maybe, on the bed. i need a desk, too.

[schizophrenicroom]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

and yes! you and teachers ha ha ha... well, he's already lucky, and to you i wish that he's a good person.

aw thanks. and hah, i have a type, i suppose... the other teacher i'm seeing tuesday night.

[gmku]

It's official. I am now in possession of an offer letter, and I just told the boss lady I'm leaving. I am out of here, gone, baby, gone!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by gmku

It's official. I am now in possession of an offer letter, and I just told the boss lady I'm leaving. I am out of here, gone, baby, gone!

you could play this for the boss lady and the kid

https://youtu.be/ekL7o8BQkZM

not exactly fitting but i've always liked that song

Originally Posted by schizophrenicroom

aw thanks. and hah, i have a type, i suppose... the other teacher i'm seeing tuesday night.

another 80s video for you then

https://youtu.be/KNIZofPB8ZM

ha ha no, it's not van halen. it's a bit pop crap but eh-- good drummer.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

this is why i love symbol man

hey! remember that the next time we disagree on something and you feel inclined to replace ideas with insults.

i'm not sore or anything, i swear, but it kills the discussion and wastes a valuable chance to understand something new.

Originally Posted by schizophrenicroom

next few paychecks, maybe, on the bed. i need a desk, too.

lots of free desks in public places! why pay. plus always someone throwing away shit. freecycle it. use an old door. wanna get fancy, get a pine board and 2 sawhorses.

beds on the other hand are the most essential furniture-- and a used one is *gross.*

[Keeping It Gimple]

http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...egun?CMP=fb_gu

[schizophrenicroom]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

https://youtu.be/KNIZofPB8ZM

ha ha no, it's not van halen. it's a bit pop crap but eh-- good drummer.

hahaha. a girl i was in band with got super obsessed with the guy and it culminated in her having to change classes and all that jazz. it was very creepy- i've harbored a fairly intense crush but i've never yknow, shown up to his doorstep uninvited.

my date didn't happen because i ended up getting a killer headache, but we rescheduled.

steal my sunshine is horrible in a fantastic way though. it's infectious.

[schizophrenicroom]

gimple- there's an article in the atlantic this month called "the end of work" that goes hand in hand with this. i'm not too jazzed about the "sharing economy" because of the instability/wages with companies like postmates or uber, but what do i know.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...egun?CMP=fb_gu

this was an engrossing read, and it made for an interesting morning. thanks.

the comments were good too. some good criticisms in there, even if not as well crafted as the original piece.

i could not miss the irony of these words after the end of the article though:

Postcapitalism is published by Allen Lane on 30 July. Paul Mason will be asking whether capitalism has had its day at a sold-out Guardian Live event on 22 July.

it's superfunny, in context.

i have some toughts about the thing but not sure they will be welcome.

Originally Posted by schizophrenicroom

gimple- there's an article in the atlantic this month called "the end of work" that goes hand in hand with this. i'm not too jazzed about the "sharing economy" because of the instability/wages with companies like postmates or uber, but what do i know.

right, i think the terms are confusing. uber uses it to rent peons, the article is talking more about open source and giving away ideas for free. think more of a "gift economy" where everyone just donates their ideas & information to the common good.

even with that dream, there are still the other 2 types of matter to deal with-- matter itself ("old matter," stuff that has mass and volume) and energy (e=mc^2). information IS indeed a 3rd type of matter but not the whole of it. while information "wants to be free", classic matter wants to stay put and be weighed down by gravity, and energy just wants to disperse and not be channeled into our machines and devices.

so the article's utopia works on the assumption that machines will take care of that whole matter and energy thing and we'll deal only in software and dreams. but that's a pretty massive assumption. maybe it's achievable but we don't know what will happen then.

i love that utopia, but knowing enough about human nature's hyerarchical tendencies and power obsessions, i wonder if it would be truly a liberation, or just a new chessboard for more powergames and mindfucks by the ruling sociopaths.

i really don't know. but we'll find out eventually if we survive long enough...

i do fear devolution into a new feudalism-- the rise of the corporate lords, rendered nearly immortal by replaceable parts, and favoring their progeny over everybody else to the point where they become a different species and social mobility is sheer fantasy. the transhuman wet dream of will-to-power.

[Keeping It Gimple]

the human nature argument is not good enough. its highly unscientific and vague and was created by western anti communists to explain the failure of stalinism and explain why neo-liberal capitalism is THE ONLY possible and best system ever.

first of all, stalinism and maoism were variants on state capitalism and second of all, the human nature argument is fucking retarded. it is a delusion like thinking capitalism exists because we started off bartering and needed tokens when we didnt have the right things to swap.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

the human nature argument is not good enough. its highly unscientific and vague and was created by western anti communists to explain the failure of stalinism and explain why neo-liberal capitalism is THE ONLY possible and best system ever.

first of all, stalinism and maoism were variants on state capitalism and second of all, the human nature argument is fucking retarded. it is a delusion like thinking capitalism exists because we started off bartering and needed tokens when we didnt have the right things to swap.

i don't know man. i was originally trained in biology. i have learned that we are apes and most of our behavior is biological. i notice this in the most minute social interactions-- there is a lot more that goes on in body language that ever leaves a person's mouth.

ideas are nice, but bodies are where most power comes from. ape bodies.

humanities people like to think that we're a tabula rasa that can be taught all sorts of things, but no. to say that we can eliminate group hierarchy and struggle is just like saying "homosexuality can be eradicated by training." what seems barbarous on one end seems enlightened on the other. i think it just can't be done--and i hope i'm wrong but that's what i think. maybe in the future with pharmacogenetic manipulation. in which case i hope i'm dead by then--because someone in power will be doing the manipulating "in the name of peace".

this is not to throw the towel on the argument for a better culture and society, and for better and more fruitful hierarchies. these days i happen to do cultural work, and i think culture is important. and yes, social organization is important. these things count for something-- but they're not absolute.

our tendencies can be modulated and given productive outlets. eliminated or fully replaced? i can't really believe that. we can't make it all nice by training. we can't just wish away our "dark" side.

it's the old rousseau/hobbes polarity. either "man is born innocent and society corrupts him" or we live in a permanent state of "warre".

i tend to side with hobbes. there is fossil evidence of ancient murders. capitalism didn't invent that.

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic....in-the-making/

seriously, we're a fucked up species. we're top predators pretending to be angelic.

let's own up to this first and maybe there's a slim chance for improvement. as long as we keep pretending otherwise, we're doomed to fail.

 

 

 

[Keeping It Gimple]

tabula rasa is wrong, so is hobbes. we are starting to learn a lot with neuro-psychology about in group/out group dynamics and such. none of this has much to do with moving beyond capitalism or at least neo liberalism. i am not like paul mason in that article who is overly hyping middle class bicycle swappers but the fact is that the current system is dying on its ass. i never put forward some peaceful utopia im just gesturing at techniques and programmes that can help the poor move outside of this current neo-liberal hell

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

tabula rasa is wrong, so is hobbes.

that's right. i said i lean towards hobbes, but i also know very well we can be a lot more than just beasts at war. but still-- power and violence can't be willed away by reading nice books. they always come back. there's tyranny everywhere.

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

we are starting to learn a lot with neuro-psychology about in group/out group dynamics and such. none of this has much to do with moving beyond capitalism or at least neo liberalism. i am not like paul mason in that article who is overly hyping middle class bicycle swappers but the fact is that the current system is dying on its ass.

well, sure. it can die in any direction though. some of them quite scary. we're never at a loss for inventing new horrors.

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

i never put forward some peaceful utopia im just gesturing at techniques and programmes that can help the poor move outside of this current neo-liberal hell

ah, that--- yes. absolutely. solidarity has always helped the peasants. when the peasants get brainwashed into thinking that they're little kings in the making and they must only pursue their little individual dreams is when they get their throats sliced one at a time while the butchers laugh.

plus, add to that the fact that there are no longer peasants who believe in solidarity, and you're forced to stick to your little individual dreams because there is nowhere else to go. hobbes overdrive. dead end.

--

don't wanna end this on a depressing note. BEYOND the dead end there are other things sprouting that can be good. but they're outside. which is why we all need to go there.

 

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i love that utopia, but knowing enough about human nature's hyerarchical tendencies and power obsessions,

Its not just that.. it just takes one small group of pissed off revolutionaries-freedom fighters-warlords-jihadis-downforwhateverz to blow up some servers and shut the whole damned thing down. Its why Skynet is never inevitable, people can always smash the machinery. Its the moral of the downfall of every advanced civilization in human history, that its all really made of glass and only temporary restrictions of etiquette protect it from being destroyed. Indeed its the entire premise behind glass windows and doors as "security", or really, ANY wall-door-barrier because with enough insistence humans can smash through ANY barrier or obstacle. Walls, gates, glass.. only work when the order is enforced universally as a matter of social etiquette. In the post-modern experience, its the random tendency towards the que, humans will line up now even when there is no need. In recent weeks I went to TWO significant events where a line to get it formed even though there were several entrance points and the line literally went to no where.. hut-2-3-4-hut-2-3-4..

 

[Keeping It Gimple]

its not capitalism or violence

its violent capitalism with pockets of civility in places waging the imperialistic wars or waiting to suffer them.

notice that at no point did i or the article i posted ever make any claims about violence or war. these weren't mentioned. you can have the future described in the article and still have conflict - of course you will. yet the default assumption is that its this system or apocalypse which is pure ideology.

[Keeping It Gimple]

people are not going to simply give up when they cant pay the rent and the jobs disappear, they will survive whatever way they can. im trying to think about ways to do that and that article is a good example of the kind of theorizing we need.

almost every single time i bring this stuff up with people the response is ridicule or fatalist conservatism.

or digression into discussions that are not relevant

[Keeping It Gimple]

Originally Posted by schizophrenicroom

gimple- there's an article in the atlantic this month called "the end of work" that goes hand in hand with this. i'm not too jazzed about the "sharing economy" because of the instability/wages with companies like postmates or uber, but what do i know.

in the short term these things cause creative destruction and do cause wages to decline - BUT - wages have been declining everywhere and wealth has been funneling upwards since the 70s and one of the reasons for this is automation, which causes better production but takes jobs away from people thus meaning there is less wages to purchase the products produced. however automation is unstoppable and we cant hold it off forever and we will be FORCED to adapt since the current system is failing everyone and we're all spiralling downwards into worse and worse poverty.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Gimple

almost every single time i bring this stuff up with people the response is ridicule or fatalist conservatism.

or digression into discussions that are not relevant

i don't know if you're addressing me here or not, but if you are, then it would be such a terrible case of projection and paranoia--

i was just coming in to post you a rep to thank you for helping inspire the idea that instead of hoarding work i should start making open source projects.

i'm dead serious.

we just had this conversation at home and it felt like such relief suddenly not to have to be a copyright cop, not to try to be a small version of a large media conglomerate, and start giving away things instead, that i yelled, so loud i scared everyone, I DON'T WANNA DO IT! (referring to the hoarding-so-i-can-sell--)-- and it was such a great unclenching of the chest that i came here to tell you.

so, that's where my reality is at the moment, and you can fantasize whatever you want, but regardless, thank you anyway, o cranky old paranoid, for bringing up good ideas here, in spite of whatever flaws your rhetoric might have or windmills you might be battling. THANK YOU.

[Keeping It Gimple]

sorry for the negativity but dude im talking about this stuff all the time with everyone i know and the responses are starting to stress me - not because they dont accept my almighty proclamations but because noone is engaging in an actual discussion of the ideas.

some of the reactionary and nasty responses i get make me very angry. proles have to work to serve me rather than machines because it gives VALUE TO THEIR LIVES like their only existential value is as servants. some of the shit ive heard has really disheartened me. people saying that its wrong to live alone and indepedently if you have the tech to do so? anglo nazi bs. its fair for the rich or maybe they agree its unfair but "we cant do anything about that" yet when i suggest poors might be better off in solar powered vans rather than going homeless trying to pay rent they get angry!

[Keeping It Gimple]

im happy for you and hope you can find a way to do this and make money, or do it and survive anyway.