[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Nirvana were great for me because I discovered The Wipers through them. I love this band so much to this day.

That is true though, what was great about Nirvana is they introduced mainstream audience to all kinds of more obscure bands. I must have discovered like half of the rock bands from the 80s and 90s that I listen to from Nirvana interviews, tour mates, t-shirts the band members wore, and bands they invited to do guest slots with. Indeed I think THAT is one of the cultural changes that Nirvana brought to the table, the ability to delve into new musics without having the radio or the magazine pundits do the selecting for you.

I think the entire shift towards "independent lables" in the mid-1990s was a reaction by the fanbase away from depending on music critics and radio DJs to select what new music we should listen to, but rather to go out and do what underground music fans have always done, discover new bands and musics totally on your own initiative. The advent in the late-1990s of the internet for downloading and discovering new music was the final part of this process, the technology when enabled people to explore on their own and tell Spin magazine writers to eat a dick

 

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Babes in Toyland have always been the underrated band of the grunge phenomenon in the 90s for me.

For sure

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

That is true though, what was great about Nirvana is they introduced mainstream audience to all kinds of more obscure bands. I must have discovered like half of the rock bands from the 80s and 90s that I listen to from Nirvana interviews, tour mates, t-shirts the band members wore, and bands they invited to do guest slots with. Indeed I think THAT is one of the cultural changes that Nirvana brought to the table, the ability to delve into new musics without having the radio or the magazine pundits do the selecting for you.

I think the entire shift towards "independent lables" in the mid-1990s was a reaction by the fanbase away from depending on music critics and radio DJs to select what new music we should listen to, but rather to go out and do what underground music fans have always done, discover new bands and musics totally on your own initiative. The advent in the late-1990s of the internet for downloading and discovering new music was the final part of this process, the technology when enabled people to explore on their own and tell Spin magazine writers to eat a dick

 

As far as answering all your questions about American indie rock, these two have all the answers http://www.terminal-boredom.com/tomlax.html
I can't think of anyone else.

[Severian]

I don't know... Hole's music just sounded way more radio ready than Nirvana's.

And Pretty on the Inside barely counts. It's an excellent record that has fuckall to do with Hole's legacy.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

I don't know... Hole's music just sounded way more radio ready than Nirvana's.

And Pretty on the Inside barely counts. It's an excellent record that has fuckall to do with Hole's legacy.

I may have just drunk a straight up gallon of beer from Munich but I dare say that Pretty On The Inside is definitely Hole certified.. indeed that record was better received critically than Bleach

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I may have just drunk a straight up gallon of beer from Munich but I dare say that Pretty On The Inside is definitely Hole certified.. indeed that record was better received critically than Bleach

I'd rank it above Bleach, and I have definitely delved into it. But the band can't be judged based on that album. Sonically it's an outlier. That's all I'm saying. If Courtney love had died in 94 she'd be a hero. She chose to live and let herself become a villain.

Speaking in Dark Knight terms helps me.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Nirvana were great for me because I discovered The Wipers through them. I love this band so much to this day.

Yup. Same. I think Nirvana were great for a number of reasons, but the artists they exposed me to are worth more to me in the long term.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

I'd rank it above Bleach, and I have definitely delved into it. But the band can't be judged based on that album. Sonically it's an outlier. That's all I'm saying. If Courtney love had died in 94 she'd be a hero.

To be sure, I didn't myself rank it higher than Bleach at all, but I was noting that in its own time, the Hole record was better received. Obviously Nevermind came out shortly thereafter that same year as Pretty On the Inside and people well, forgot about it entirely

She chose to live and let herself become a villain.

I don't think she chose that, I think she was born that way, indeed can we call it destiny?

Originally Posted by Severian

Yup. Same. I think Nirvana were great for a number of reasons, but the artists they exposed me to are worth more to me in the long term.

While Nirvana certainly introduced me to a lot of other bands, mainly Sonic Youth, I still think even if its out of the sheer nostalgia that Nirvana will also be worth more to me than almost any other band. I mean, literally, Nirvana taught me how to play the guitar yo, and THAT is a huge part of my life. Nirvana was the first band to really make me passionate about listening to, writing, and performing music. In that regard they are truly the Beatles of our generation, all the bands from the mid-to-late 1960s and early 70s cite the Beatles as the major influence in starting up in music. For me Nirvana is that band, whether it was inspiring the sound of my music or just motivating me to say, "Wait, I CAN do that too!"

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

To be sure, I didn't myself rank it higher than Bleach at all, but I was noting that in its own time, the Hole record was better received. Obviously Nevermind came out shortly thereafter that same year as Pretty On the Inside and people well, forgot about it entirely

I don't think she chose that, I think she was born that way, indeed can we call it destiny?

While Nirvana certainly introduced me to a lot of other bands, mainly Sonic Youth, I still think even if its out of the sheer nostalgia that Nirvana will also be worth more to me than almost any other band. I mean, literally, Nirvana taught me how to play the guitar yo, and THAT is a huge part of my life. Nirvana was the first band to really make me passionate about listening to, writing, and performing music. In that regard they are truly the Beatles of our generation, all the bands from the mid-to-late 1960s and early 70s cite the Beatles as the major influence in starting up in music. For me Nirvana is that band, whether it was inspiring the sound of my music or just motivating me to say, "Wait, I CAN do that too!"

For me that band was Sonic Youth itself. But Nirvana is definitely one of the greats, and I don't think it's just about nostalgia. Though their music does certainly take me back to a different time and place -- namely high school, the mid '90s -- I can honestly say that my true appreciation of their music didn't even kick in until I was much older. The reissues have done a great deal to help me put into perspective an era that I was too caught up in to view with any objectivity at the time.

I get more sheer enjoyment out of listening to Nirvana now than I ever did before, and I can't say why. It just isn't about hype, or self-identifying with anything anymore. It's about listening to great music. In 1994, one couldn't separate Nirvana's music from Kurt's death. Now it's a cleaner process. I don't grieve for a lost hero... I just enjoy the music. It's less personal, but that's healthy. I don't know... I seem to have misplaced my point.. I will be sure to let someone know if I find it again.

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by Severian

Yeah, I agree- Live Through This sounds like it could be a Nirvana album... the difference is only really in the individual styles of the players. Courtney didn't play like Kurt... she rarely actually played at all.. and nobody in Hole's history had the same frustrated delivery that Cobain put into his playing, or Grohl put into his drumming. Aside from a few fleeting moments of originality, Hole sounded polished and precious compared to Nirvana. But most of Hole's pre-Celebrity Skin material sounds like overproduced Nirvana B-sides.

No!!!

Hole always sounded like a more melodic Mudhoney. not Nirvana. maybe a Nirvana influenced Mudhoney that is.

[Severian]

You know in re-reading this conversation I realized that I don't feel strongly enough about Hole to even have an opinion about how they sound. Their first record is essential listening, especially for Sonic Youth fans, as it shows (yet again) how influential they were to the 90s alt rock scene. And Live Through This is an album that should be heard by everyone (to say nothing of its quality)

Aside from that, man I don't give a fuck.

[noisereductions]

I still love SP. No fucks given. I still keep up w/ them.

Re-reading this stuff I should add that I love Hole too. My Body The Hand Grenade is a brilliant compilation that sort of reminds me why.

[Bytor Peltor]

Oasis = Tears For Fears
Smashing Pumpkins = Judas Priest

[Rob Instigator]

I would say the most overhyped of the two was Oasis. Nobody ever claimed that Smashing Pumpkins were as good as the Beatles but every single asshole would spout the line that Oasis' songs were like Beatles version 2. Fuck that shit. Champagne supernova my asss.

[Rob Instigator]

Only soundgarden I enjoy listening to these days is Louder than Love. I hate when Cornell sings in the low register. black hole shitfarm

[Rob Instigator]

BTW there was no Grunge Era. It was a made up marketing gimmick to try and sell hard guitar rock to the masses.

No one mentions how the Sub Pop people used the same recording engineers and essentially forced every band on the label to sound the same way (recording-wise), from Urge Overkill to Tad to Mudhoney to early soundgarde, early afghan whigs, tyo Babes in Toyland

Almost all of those bands wnet on to wholly different sounds (but for mudhoney cuz if it aint broke why fix it), and most of them have spoken in interviews about how they were pressured to sound a certain way. Kurt said this about Bleach.

[EVOLghost]

Wasn't Oasis compared to the beatles at one point? I think they were overhyped for sure.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

how you feel about Soundgarden NR? they seem to be ignored in this discussion. I still feel they were fantastic. Badmotorfinger and Superunknown are both classics to me. untouchable albums.

they were the only band in that "scene" that I was never really into. The only thing I ever owned by them was their singles collection. What was it? Down On The A-Sides or something? They were kind of a singles band to me. I liked some of their singles, but they were never a band that I wanted to listen to for the duration of an album. I don't know. I can't even really say why. Just never fully clicked. But yeah, I liked most of their singles, liked the stuff he did w/ Temple Of The Dog, liked some of his solo stuff. But not a "fan" of Soundgarden proper.

[noisereductions]

I think his voice reminded me of hair metal a bit?

[noisereductions]

yeah ! "Metal wailing" - that's a good way to put it. haha.