[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Glice

At the risk of saying something I mean, on the internet, I genuinely hope that the sort of people who are into TG are also the sort of people who don't really mind what gender a person chooses for their self. Unfortunately, Gen seems to have become a bit of a poster-[pangender noun] for a lot of the transgendered; by which I mean, the ins and outs of Gen's personal life are less interesting than who they are as an artist.

I'd agree whole-heartedly if we were speaking of Wendy Carlos, but in Gen's case s/he clearly made the gender transformation as an artistic statement and provocation. S/he's said as much in many an interview, and given lyrical content that has always been rife with fringe sexuality and deliberate challenges to what's considered "normal", it's assured that s/he wants us to be thinking about and discussing it.

[Ghostchase]

Peter's smoking jacket is so awesome. Cosey looking sexy as usual. Chris uses a DS in his live set up, I wonder what homebrew programs and/or games he uses and plays? Playing Mario Kart DS with Chris Carter. NOW THAT WOULD BE A STORY.


I've really got to see them, but being in Vancouver my chances are slim.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

I'd agree whole-heartedly if we were speaking of Wendy Carlos, but in Gen's case s/he clearly made the gender transformation as an artistic statement and provocation. S/he's said as much in many an interview, and given lyrical content that has always been rife with fringe sexuality and deliberate challenges to what's considered "normal", it's assured that s/he wants us to be thinking about and discussing it.

I agree; but I do think that the nature of the T of LBGT is something that's rarely given 'serious' thought in music means you need people like Gen and Carlos (who I can't stand) equally. I don't think it undermines the effect of being 'transgendered' (for whatever that means within a broad spectrum) to do it as an 'art statement' - in a similar way to Greyson Perry within the art world (although he seems far more prosaic - "I'm kind of TV, but is that really important?").

I think one thing that's really interesting about Gen is that as a huge figure within a certain sort of 'alternative' music culture, 'their' (Gen and Lady Jaye's) status as 'pangendered' remains controversial to a huge part of their audience. We're all pretty bored with, say, Manson's 'cross-dressing' but actually forcing the issue with regards a more normative state of gender-identity is really important.

Anyway, here's the post-transexual manifesto for those of you who've yet to read it - you really should.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by Glice

At the risk of saying something I mean, on the internet, I genuinely hope that the sort of people who are into TG are also the sort of people who don't really mind what gender a person chooses for their self. Unfortunately, Gen seems to have become a bit of a poster-[pangender noun] for a lot of the transgendered; by which I mean, the ins and outs of Gen's personal life are less interesting than who they are as an artist.

Probably the only time I'll ever give ya a positive rep.

[Glice]

I'll point out that you're stuck in someone else's childhood if it makes you feel better?

[ann ashtray]

There's a school of thought that expresses one shouldn't judge the art by what goes on in the artists personal life. There's another one that feels as if the personal life of an artist often has something to say about the art itself. I'm somewhere in between. Ultimately it doesn't matter much, as art almost always (if not actually always...) boils down to mere entertain + nothing more. Some people relate to it more than that...These are usually the sorts that make the art of other people their own personal lifestyles....Mansonites + the like.

I find Throbbing Gristle, + esp. Gen to be wildly entertaining. I think s/he's an asshole, but I also think s/he's smart. S/He's an artist that appeals to my natural interest in all things weird and sometimes philosophical interests that are always lingering in the back of my mind but so seldom expressed unless I'm feeling particularly challenged/challenging.


Unlike shock for the sake of shock (Gwar, Alice Cooper), I think Gen is often trying to express actual feelings and ideas. I don't agree with all of it, but s/he def. always succeeds in keeping my mind stirred + considering ideas I might not come across otherwise.

I like him/her because s/he's a spokesperson not for a specific sex or religion except for that of which exists in his own mind. Plenty of ideas pulled from elsewhere, sure, but something that results in something being very unique to Gen. I actually know a transexual that totally despises Gen. Interesting? Not really. I can see how that would be an easy thing for anyone.

[Adolfo]

European Tour Promo -> http://vimeo.com/15506699

23rd Oct - LONDON VILLAGE UNDERGROUND, UK
30th Oct - PRAGUE ARCHA THEATRE, Czech Republic
2nd Nov - BOLOGNA, ITALY
5th Nov - PORTO CASA MUSICA, Portugal
4th Dec - ATP, MINEHEAD, UK

[washer]

Ulver will join TG at the Porto gig. The planets must be aligning or some shit, that lineup playing at that venue is pretty much something that I wouldn't even dream about.

[Phlegmscope]

Originally Posted by Glice

Great interview with Gen. Long and comprehensive. S/he's a fascinating persons.

Thanks for this one. I really should take advantage of the whole ubuweb.

I would've loved to have him/her as my crazy aunt or something.
S/he makes it sound like her/his life is basically an ongoing art installation or human experiment.

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by Glice

Great interview with Gen. Long and comprehensive. S/he's a fascinating persons.

S/he did a lengthy interview on CBC radio some time ago. Yes, very fascinating - a brilliant mind really.....beyond our world! (And CBC radio rules.)

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by Florya

I think, especially in Gens case, that the line between her as a person and him as an artist has become blurred to the point that it's almost impossible to see where one stops and the other begins.

The wo/man is a situationist genius.

Should there be a line?

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Skuj

Should there be a line?

No, but in most people's minds there is.
Hence Gen's attempt to blur it.

[space]

if Genesis didn't want people to wax on and on about whatever sexuality s/he's currently expressing, s/he wouldn't have made such a big deal of it (my same point about those gawdawful socks and shoes). so far, it seems to be working. how many times have people used the preferred 's/he' moniker in this thread?

Genesis has alway got off on this stuff. how many other "fanclubs" made near constant requests for their members to masturbate onto a bloody sigil? certainly not sonic youth (but that's never stopped me from masturbating to Kim).

ps: fucking christ, those SOCKS.

[space]

ps: while in Oz, my fucking devotional candle melted and saturated the lining of my trunk with red wax.

fuck you, ma(n)'am.

[Glice]

(Oh, I shouldn't do this)

...but isn't the point that we don't have definitive pronouns for the transgendered/ pandrogyne, regardless of Gen's bandstanding? That is, regardless of what s/he/ they [the singular 'they'] say, it's still a pretty 'big' thing that a lot of people aren't talking about?

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Glice

(Oh, I shouldn't do this)

...but isn't the point that we don't have definitive pronouns for the transgendered/ pandrogyne, regardless of Gen's bandstanding? That is, regardless of what s/he/ they [the singular 'they'] say, it's still a pretty 'big' thing that a lot of people aren't talking about?

Thank you.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Thank you.

Well, y'know, I try and avoid talking about, y'now, actually important things on this forum, but sometimes it's necessary.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Skuj

Should there be a line?

Neither should nor shouldn't. Some artists make their life part of their art, others actually covet privacy. I don't find anything wrong with the latter, and sometimes it's really for the best. KISS never should have taken off their makeup and revealed who they were, it blew the whole thing. And not just because they were so fucking ugly.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by space

if Genesis didn't want people to wax on and on about whatever sexuality s/he's currently expressing, s/he wouldn't have made such a big deal of it (my same point about those gawdawful socks and shoes). so far, it seems to be working. how many times have people used the preferred 's/he' moniker in this thread?

Genesis has alway got off on this stuff. how many other "fanclubs" made near constant requests for their members to masturbate onto a bloody sigil? certainly not sonic youth (but that's never stopped me from masturbating to Kim).

ps: fucking christ, those SOCKS.

I can see where you're coming from with this, and considering we are posting on a forum of mostly liberal-thinking people, I gathered your criticism stems from the way some homosexual artists use their own sexuality as extra arsenal to present their artistic vision. And you're right, more often than not it's a tedious and facile tactic for reasons that go beyond the good intentions of wanting to be an encouraging example to the closeted gays. I don't agree this applies to GPO, though, because body-transformation would still inevitably attract undesired attention, as well as desired, from all established sexes anyway, straight or gay. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think GPO always has a choice when it comes to how people perceive his ''personality''.

[Genteel Death]

An example is how anti-transphobia posters/leaflets have started making a more regular appearance in, guess where, gay bars, where most of it found a natural habitat by having transgender issues forced to co-exist with homosexual issues.