[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yeah but what about disco?

Yeah,what about it?And also,what exactly do you mean by disco?

[!@#$%!]

for every "disco inferno" there were hundreds if not thousands of vomity recordings

[Cantankerous]

 

surely this does not fit into the category of disco. i hope.

[scott v]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

Borbetomagus are hard to classify.
Are they noise? Are they extreme free jazz?
Depends on the listener, I guess. For me personally, I find noise to be easy to get excited about at first, but I have also found it has a faster rate of burnout. I have been listening to more Borbetomagus of late myself, having gone through a phase 10 or so years ago. I think it was because I recently go to see and spend smoe time with them, and they rekindled my interest through their unbelievable stamina and dedication to their craft.

you've hung w/ Borbetomagus?!
thats cool!

Gamelan is a hugely underapreciated type of ethnic/world music, it is so underecorded even in this day in age, so its hard to make the comparison to noise or pop or whatever... You just don't know it may be possible to go to Bali and here some utter bad Gamelan music tribe that just hasn't hit the market yet...

i tend to belive that as much good music exists in the world there is at least some bad no matter what it is...

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

for every "disco inferno" there were hundreds if not thousands of vomity recordings

Erm.....

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Erm.....

ha ha. and gloria gaynor vs the village people?

[Savage Clone]

I love gamelan music. We are lucky enough in my town to have both a traditional Gamelan and an ensemble that composes modern pieces with these instruments. Beautiful stuff.

And yeah scott, Don D. stayed at our house for a night during End Times. He's a great guy, as was Sauter. I didn't meet Miller though.
Don D. is actually a very successful insurance agent with his own branch office in Nyack, believe it or not. When I found this out, I was blown away and super impressed. Imagine, the most stereotypically "square" day job yielding some of the most consistently brutal and challenging music of the past two-plus decades. Awesome!

Along these lines:
Incapacitants = bankers
Narita of High Rise = now-retired securities firm VP/stockbroker

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ha ha. and gloria gaynor vs the village people?

It would be a huge gay hug(with back stabbing going on behind those smiles of course).

[porkmarras]

Gamelan music(and i just named one type of music at the top of my head wich is not suffering the same problems as the noise genre) has a way of preserving itself wich retains a little more mistery,history and downright elegance wich i think noise music lacks left,right and centre in this time and age(it wasn't the case initially,mind)

[scott v]

I must say how it is interesting that especially in the noise music genre there is this overload asthetic to put out (no matter what format) recordings no matter what the quality, i.e. take the band Wolf Eyes or any band of that status or lesser they do have some great sounding recordings (this is a matter of opinion) but with that they also have some real trashy sounding pieces of shit, you know alot of those limited to 100 cassette type releases on American Tapes where some sad soul pays some exormanous amount of $$$ to obtain a copy that sounds like a tape that is 100+ generation hi noise cheapo radio shlock cassette of a refridegator hooked up w/ contact microphones and amplified thru a guitar amp.

[scott v]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I love gamelan music. We are lucky enough in my town to have both a traditional Gamelan and an ensemble that composes modern pieces with these instruments. Beautiful stuff.

And yeah scott, Don D. stayed at our house for a night during End Times. He's a great guy, as was Sauter. I didn't meet Miller though.
Don D. is actually a very successful insurance agent with his own branch office in Nyack, believe it or not. When I found this out, I was blown away and super impressed. Imagine, the most stereotypically "square" day job yielding some of the most consistently brutal and challenging music of the past two-plus decades. Awesome!

Along these lines:
Incapacitants = bankers
Narita of High Rise = now-retired securities firm VP/stockbroker

Wow yeah thats cool, i just got Don's solo 7" on Ecstatic Peace, I know its been out for quite a while but man its pretty killer solo overdriven sax blow out, and perfect on the 7" format as you can really digest it and enjoy it!

talk about square jobs i fit that category and make some extreme music myself... my free noise/improv band Caustic Solution has a track on the recent Carbon records 3xcd compilation (Thurston has a track too...) and my day job is a Quality/Process Engineer for a conveyor belt manufacturer...

[Savage Clone]

I know what you mean, scott. It's pretty affordable now for musicians of modest means to make recordings that sound "good," even if your overall aesthetic is "trashy." I see no reason not to make things sound good if you can do it. Good sound does not have to mean "annoyingly slick," and too many musicians seem to think bad sound= "keeping it real" or something.
It has more impact if turning up the volume can be done purely for the sake of making the music LOUDER, as opposed to just "more audible."

[scott v]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Gamelan music(and i just named one type of music at the top of my head wich is not suffering the same problems as the noise genre) has a way of preserving itself wich retains a little more mistery,history and downright elegance wich i think noise music lacks left,right and centre in this time and age(it wasn't the case initially,mind)

i agree with you very much so!

also i must say this is also one of the better threads i've seen here lately. good discussion...

[golden child]

I must say how it is interesting that especially in the noise music genre there is this overload asthetic to put out (no matter what format) recordings no matter what the quality, i.e. take the band Wolf Eyes or any band of that status or lesser they do have some great sounding recordings (this is a matter of opinion) but with that they also have some real trashy sounding pieces of shit, you know alot of those limited to 100 cassette type releases on American Tapes where some sad soul pays some exormanous amount of $$$ to obtain a copy that sounds like a tape that is 100+ generation hi noise cheapo radio shlock cassette of a refridegator hooked up w/ contact microphones and amplified thru a guitar amp.

thats not like a staple of the noise genre, there are prolific artists and there are plently that ARENT.

[scott v]

Originally Posted by golden child

thats not like a staple of the noise genre, there are prolific artists and there are plently that ARENT.

Though the most that get attention are the ones that are most prolific, go to Volcanic Tongue dot Com for instance. For as much good stuff David Keenan carries there there are definitly some bad weeds in the bunch.

[golden child]

i read a sickness quote once, he was talking to new noise artists, he said that noise is a name genre more than anything. ah found it.

And lastly, Noise, in general, is a name recognition genre. If no one knows you people are less willing to take the chance on your work. Work at it. Work better rather than releasing. It all takes time. It does have to be an obession. Why? because even 2 or 3 years down (even with the internet) the road people still won't know your work. In time people will begin to see you are doing.

wise.

[golden child]

1. Most experiments are failures. In every other field of endeavor, the first dozen/hundred/thousand/ten thousand experiments crash and burn before the product comes out like it should. In "experimental" music, a large number of the artists involved seem to record their first or second effort and put it on the internet for the world to see. If the first recording sucks, nobody will EVER listen to the later recordings, even if they are really good. Take the time to make something good before you share it.

2. Everybody has already done what you just did. Noise has existed in something close to its current form for 30+ years. Experimental music in the broader sense, especially based on guitars, has been around longer. People who are better than you have already had your idea and pulled it off with much more aplomb. This ties in with my first point: don't just say "what happens when I hold something electrical near my guitar pickups?" and then assume you have split the atom. REALLY CREATE.

3. Don't work exclusively on computers, unless you want nobody to take you seriously. Computers are fantastic tools for editing your work, producing new sounds, and doing lots of other amazing stuff. However, computers still can't do everything, and most of all they tend to be awkward and ineffective in live performance settings. If you have never worked with real equipment or played a real show, it will be apparent in the kind of music you make. If you somehow make something good on a computer despite your lack of grounding, you are going to look like a colossal asshole when you get asked to play a show and then have to say "Umm....I can't play shows."

4. Be deliberate about what you are doing. Computer audio editing programs have lots of effects. Mixers, effects pedals, and instruments have lots of knobs. Be aware of what you are doing when you manipulate this vast array of options. If you PRESS BUTAN all the time, your music will sound very bad. Learn from your failed experiments in button-pressing and knob-twisting.

5. Remember, you are still making music. Noise and experimental music can be very free-form, and annihilate the barriers and conventions of traditional music. That doesn't mean you should simply hold your guitar into an amplifier for an hour and call if music. And if you do, Lou Reed will have done it already, and will have done it better. Your music still needs a structure and purpose. Dynamics and variation are good. I will repeat that again. DYNAMICS AND VARIATION ARE GOOD. Whatever your first effort was, it did not have enough dynamics, variation, or balance, do it again at least twice.

6. Make an investment. Yes, you can download an amazing free program with lots of cool effects. Keep in mind that you usually get what you pay for, just as with anything else in life. The more time and money you put into your music, the better it will be. If you want to save money, learn to build things yourself, find good deals, and beg, borrow, or steal whatever you need to accomplish what you need to accomplish. But don't assume that a 20-watt combo amp is going to do the same thing as a 600-watt power amp, or that the effect that came with your free audio program is the same as having a real pedal.

7. Develop a social network. If you exist in a vacuum, you will never have any idea if what you are doing or where you are going. Meet other people who are interested in the same kinds of music. Go to shows, and if they don't happen in your area, put them on yourself. When you record something, solicit criticism from people who know what they are talking about. This does not mean the Musician's Lounge. ML is good for a lot of things, but intelligently deconstructing a piece of noise isn't one of them. Get off your ass and make some friends. Without a social network, you will go NOWHERE. With an awesome social network, you will probably succeed even if you suck.

8. Consider what the fuck you are trying to accomplish. There are a lot of things you can do with out of the way styles of music. Some of it is just for the fun of it, and if that's the case a lot of the above advice isn't that important. Maybe you want to record something and have it released. Maybe you want to play shows or tour. Whatever it is, you need to figure it out and try to behave accordingly. If you are trying to tour, then recording something on your computer and putting it on myspace probably isn't the best way to go. If you are just trying to have fun, don't worry too much if everybody hates you.

9. Nobody owes you a damned thing. Everybody hates noise and "out there" music. It's true. Even the very best music from the margins is still marginal. You will certainly not be the best, and nobody is going to pay any attention to you. Any success you have will be the result of a ridiculous amount of hard work. Nobody is going to give you ANYTHING. Be prepared for soul-crushing amounts of apathy on the part of the rest of the world. That doesn't mean that what you're doing isn't worthwhile, it just means that you need to ask yourself who you're doing it for, and rethink what you're trying to accomplish and whether it's realistic.

10. You must find your own way. I don't mean this in some sort of mystical, Eastern sense. I mean nobody can tell you what equipment to buy, what to sound like, or anything else about what specifically you need to do. A significant number of threads ask for advice on what sort of equipment is requisite for experimental music. The answer is: whatever equipment turns out to be useful. The only real answer is that you should probably get a compact mixer. Beyond that, you are on your own. Your style, your equipment, your friends, your everything have to be your own, and you'll probably fail to accomplish the big dreams you have in your head unless you are lucky and incredibly persistent.

[Trasher02]

yes.
This planet needs all the noise records it can get.

[krastian]

Nope

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

I dont really like straight noise, I need something to it. But it depends what noise is, couldn't free jazz be considered noise?