[Satan]

female perspective:

i was going to be a stripper at one point because i was really broke and i had rent, bills etc to pay. reasoning:
1. it's easy
2. you can easily make a LOT of money if you know what you're doing, most of it in cash
3. i wouldn't feel uncomfortable or objectified if i was a stripper, it's just a job. i'm very comfortable with myself, i'm not embarrassed by my body or nudity at all.

it's not degrading to women. the women make the decision themselves. no one's being forced to take their clothes off. there's plenty of security, typically if any patrons get out of line they're dealt with very quickly and effectively.


for some reason i ended up waitressing instead. i kind of regret it. stripping would have been a lot more fun and interesting.

[notyourfiend]

In responce to Satan -

I've also considered doing somesex work (i.e. phone sex lines and such) I agree with you that in many cases women make the decision for themselves. But it's important to note that consent is really a vague concept. There are lots of cases where women are put in positions where they have no choice but to be sex workers. Also, it's really important to note where there are lots of situations in sex work where women cannot act as their own agents. Strip clubs have increasingly be forcing women to pay fees to rent space to dance, often placing them into debt. Also, hundreds of thosounds of women across the globe are trafficked into sex work....stripping included. Just think Thailand.

[Rob Instigator]

The idea of women empowering themselves by becoming sexual objects is backward. It seemed brilliant at one point, but it had really bad ramifications. Things lose their context so quickly.

this makes PERFECT sense

[Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski]

Originally Posted by Satan

female perspective:

i was going to be a stripper at one point because i was really broke and i had rent, bills etc to pay. reasoning:
1. it's easy
2. you can easily make a LOT of money if you know what you're doing, most of it in cash
3. i wouldn't feel uncomfortable or objectified if i was a stripper, it's just a job. i'm very comfortable with myself, i'm not embarrassed by my body or nudity at all.

it's not degrading to women. the women make the decision themselves. no one's being forced to take their clothes off. there's plenty of security, typically if any patrons get out of line they're dealt with very quickly and effectively.


for some reason i ended up waitressing instead. i kind of regret it. stripping would have been a lot more fun and interesting.

I don't like the idea that women have to be young, buxom, fake, "attractive" by media standards, etc.

Plus, there's no art there. Saying stripping is a form of expression is like saying professional sports are art or beauty.

I'm surprised so many people feel that stripping is such a wonderful thing in our society. You're probably the same people that feel it is an injustice that professional athletes make millions and are role models to impoverished youth. How can you possibly defend that a quick easy buck through manipulation and degradation are noble and/or ok?

Would it be all right if you were taking twelve cumshots on your face once a week in a bukake porn flick? "But it's easy money and we're in a recession!" C'mon.

[Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski]

Originally Posted by pantophobia

this quickly turned into the best thread on here i have seen in a very long time

Mike, you should be owed a bottle of your choice, or i'll mix you something up real nice

I'll take a lemonade and a beer.

You were missed at the Chicago shows! It's been too long, brother Patrick! You have many to look forward to, though, right? In the words of Foreigner, it still "feels like the first time."

[[Sandbag]]

Originally Posted by Satan

it's not degrading to women. the women make the decision themselves. no one's being forced to take their clothes off.

believe me, i'm a guy and if id get paid to take my clothes off it'd be a good idea to make cash.. strippers and whores surely are not guilty for all the young women being illegally sexually exploited, but it's being part of the bussiness.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski

I don't like the idea that women have to be young, buxom, fake, "attractive" by media standards, etc.

Plus, there's no art there. Saying stripping is a form of expression is like saying professional sports are art or beauty.

I'm surprised so many people feel that stripping is such a wonderful thing in our society. You're probably the same people that feel it is an injustice that professional athletes make millions and are role models to impoverished youth. How can you possibly defend that a quick easy buck through manipulation and degradation are noble and/or ok?

Would it be all right if you were taking twelve cumshots on your face once a week in a bukake porn flick? "But it's easy money and we're in a recession!" C'mon.

i don't see what the problem is. it's not something i would be embarrassed by. if these girls want to go out and get big fake tits and show them to people what's the big deal? i would be a lot more ashamed of working a desk job.
btw stripping isn't art. it's not progressive. it's a fucking job. and stripping (which entails doing your set on the pole and giving customers private dances which does NOT include sexual favours...at least not if it was me) is a lot different than taking a load or 12 to the face on camera. big, big difference.

girls who work as sex slaves in third world countries ARE NOT RELEVANT TO STRIPPERS. it's sad and sick that shit like that goes on but i just don't see how it's relevant if we are talking about people who have made a conscious, informed decision to strip.

[[Sandbag]]

Originally Posted by Satan

girls who work as sex slaves in third world countries ARE NOT RELEVANT TO STRIPPERS.

what about illegally exploited strippers? i guess they arent relevant to normal strippers

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski

I'm surprised so many people feel that stripping is such a wonderful thing in our society. You're probably the same people that feel it is an injustice that professional athletes make millions and are role models to impoverished youth. How can you possibly defend that a quick easy buck through manipulation and degradation are noble and/or ok?
C'mon.

I have extremely mixed and powerful feelings about the whole sex work thing. Sex radicalism means a lot to me. To me, it's mostly about being able to have a feminism which encompasses sexuality in all of it's strange contradictions...just like how feminism is a lens in which i use to explore the chaos and catches of the society around me. Sex radical feminism is also about working towards a sexuality which is consentual. And if a stripper is on the pole consentually who am i to judge?

at the end of the day, I don't think that sex work does anything to raise the status of women as a whole. in that sense, stripping is not a feminist action and i'm sick of people trying to tell me that it is. sex work is a job and sex workers are people too. society as a whole exploits everybody's basic needs/desires to make some $$$. as a sex worker you are providing a service for a fee....i don't think that this is particularly the best mentality and trust me, it nausates me as much as the next person who, at some point in their life, has done more than toy with anarchist or marxist mentalities. but at least as a stripper you aren't depriving a person of their needs. (you can always argue that it deprives women of thier rights in relationships because stippers hold them up to oppressive standards...but still, objectifying standards of female sexuality exist everywhere and a women deciding to starve herself and her family rather than spend a night in her underwear doesn't do anything either)

Also, sex work can be relatively empowering in queer communities where watching queer porn or something can be a person's first exposure to similiar sexualities. I personally identify as queer, as do most of my friends. For many of them, having access to lesbain erotica and such was what made them realize that they are not alone. It also gave them a way to fantasize and explore. That was empowering!

some sex workers have more control over their lives than others. it's certainly naive to assume that all sex workers are empowered or the opposite, that all sex workers are exploited and disempowered. it is an extremely complicated subject where they're are no absolute consensuses.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by [Sandbag]

what about illegally exploited strippers? i guess they arent relevant to normal strippers

i believe the conversation began with talking about courtney love and kathleen hanna who stripped voluntarily so i assumed we were talking about people who choose to take their clothes off for money rather than being forced to do so.

i'm bored of this, i'm done.

[[Sandbag]]

Originally Posted by Satan

i believe the conversation began with talking about courtney love and kathleen hanna who stripped voluntarily so i assumed we were talking about people who choose to take their clothes off for money rather than being forced to do so.

i'm bored of this, i'm done.

and where there is people who choose to take their clothes off for money there's also people being forced to do so.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by [Sandbag]

and where there is people who choose to take their clothes off for money there's also people being forced to do so.

that's it. no either/ors here!

[[Sandbag]]

*thumbs up* ..

[chabib]

Originally Posted by Satan

i don't see what the problem is. it's not something i would be embarrassed by. if these girls want to go out and get big fake tits and show them to people what's the big deal? i would be a lot more ashamed of working a desk job.
btw stripping isn't art. it's not progressive. it's a fucking job. and stripping (which entails doing your set on the pole and giving customers private dances which does NOT include sexual favours...at least not if it was me) is a lot different than taking a load or 12 to the face on camera. big, big difference.

girls who work as sex slaves in third world countries ARE NOT RELEVANT TO STRIPPERS. it's sad and sick that shit like that goes on but i just don't see how it's relevant if we are talking about people who have made a conscious, informed decision to strip.

john waters has nude photos of me in his collection. true story.

[canabero]

Originally Posted by Satan

btw stripping isn't art. it's not progressive. it's a fucking job.

and what do you think is art? all the people i know understands art as all "that i want,makes me feel good and doesn't hurt my ideas". But art is creating feeling, emotions, i like to see girls stripping, and yeah tthere's a lot of girls that do that just for money but in music there's some artists that sings just for money or to be famous but when they sing can bring emotions to their fans and the art is working. Art could be a good or bad thing it's not a moral matter.

[jennthebenn]

The resonating part of Kim's statement for me is the final one, about the context. That's a risk anyone takes when they make a statement,
be it with their bodies or otherwise. Madonna became a legend off exploitation, being exploited herself, then exploiting her own exploitation. Most women who tried to follow her failed 'cause they were not as savvy.

Each individual woman has to understand the possibility that she could be misunderstood and whether it would negate potential positives. I have
no idea how easy that is to reconcile; you think a lot of strippers, whores, and young buxom singers are thinking as they cavort, "I'm possibly warping a guys perception of what women should be in society and what their roles are?" No, they're thinking $$$. They give a fuck about context, the bigger picture.

Finally: strip clubs=one of the least-sexy things ever.

[nancykitten]

Originally Posted by [Sandbag]

believe me, i'm a guy and if id get paid to take my clothes off it'd be a good idea to make cash..

You do realise there are lots of seedy gay joints where you'd be able to do this. If you're under 30 and not especially ugly?

And if you wouldn't want to do it for slimey old gay guys then why would it be any easier for women to do it for slimey old straight guyz?

[[Sandbag]]

Originally Posted by nancykitten

You do realise there are lots of seedy gay joints where you'd be able to do this. If you're under 30 and not especially ugly?

And if you wouldn't want to do it for slimey old gay guys then why would it be any easier for women to do it for slimey old straight guyz?

when did i said it's easier for women?
..my whole arguement was about how degrading it is to women in general.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by chabib

john waters has nude photos of me in his collection. true story.

pix or it didn't happen

[chabib]

Originally Posted by nancykitten

You do realise there are lots of seedy gay joints where you'd be able to do this. If you're under 30 and not especially ugly?

vinny gallo used to dance on stage to ultravox tunes at the Gaiety in NYC.