[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Glice

My point is more to do with the phrasing of the question 'what's up with Jewish people ignoring 'the rest' of the holocaust'. I'm sorry, call me a bigot and a racist all you like, but if it were my people that were murdered/ being murdered (I'm an English Catholic) I would be ever so slightly more concerned about my own people (especially if there were an overwhelming majority of them) being killed, or having been killed, than I would about a culture to which I am slightly less attached.

.

haven't you been paying attention? the jewish people were not an overwhelming majority, it is just publicised that way. 5 million to 6 million?

1/2 vs 5/12?

majority?

half baked?
come on man, even a seven year old could understand the problem here. genocide is not something to joke about. it is not a my people your people kind of thing. it is of global significance, because a threat to humanity anywhere is a threat to humanity everywhere. the only reason there is a continuation of the genocide in sudan is because there IS oil in Africa. the fact that genocide continues is a testimony to the apathy of the human race, and the whole point of remembering the holocaust is to end apathy and end genocide, but if you remember the holocaust in an apathetic way (i.e. only looking at half the story, and neglecting the rest, remaining apathetic to those who died that were NOT jewish, the five million!) you preserve apathy itself.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

there is a lot of oil in africa.

Let me revise: Nigeria is the only African country in OPEC. US/EU industry already has its grubby paws into African oil in the other countries.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Let me revise: Nigeria is the only African country in OPEC. US/EU industry already has its grubby paws into African oil in the other countries.

Nigeria is estimated to hold upwards of 20% of the global reserves. Sudan, Congo Brazzaville, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon and South Africa all produce marketable and even exportable quantities of oil. there is indeed oil in africa, as well as every other natural resource our modern world is dependent on.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

haven't you been paying attention? the jewish people were not an overwhelming majority, it is just publicised that way. 5 million to 6 million?

1/2 vs 5/12?

majority?

half baked?
come on man, even a seven year old could understand the problem here. genocide is not something to joke about. it is not a my people your people kind of thing. it is of global significance, because a threat to humanity anywhere is a threat to humanity everywhere. the only reason there is a continuation of the genocide in sudan is because there IS oil in Africa. the fact that genocide continues is a testimony to the apathy of the human race, and the whole point of remembering the holocaust is to end apathy and end genocide, but if you remember the holocaust in an apathetic way (i.e. only looking at half the story, and neglecting the rest, remaining apathetic to those who died that were NOT jewish, the five million!) you preserve apathy itself.

Ok, I'm giving up on this argument at the end of this post, unless anyone particularly wants me to clarify any difficult points.

First: The title of this thread is "What's up with JEWISH people ignoring the rest of the holocaust?" I emphasise Jewish for a good reason: this title gives the impression that the impetus for emphasising the other people killed in the holocaust lies with the Jews. It doesn't. If it does, it lies as much with them as with anyone else.

Second: I believe the statistics of races and people killed in the holocaust runs something along the lines of: 5 million Jews; 1 million gypsies; hundreds of thousands of 'others', including Christians, so-called communists/ resistance, disabled people and gays. There were more Jews killed. I am saying this, and this is probably a good point to read carefully, not to try and emphasise that the Jewish people 'deserve' the pity of the rest of the world, but to emphasise that there is a good reason for that emphasis.

Third: Only an idiot would try and claim that the genocide in the second world war was anything other than abhorrent - it is a global concern, and a lesson that everyone, no matter where they come from, should learn from, and as you point out, something that hasn't been learnt from - you mention Sudan, I could just as easily mention the activities in former Yugoslavia or where ever. On this we agree.

Fourth: My main point is that your thread starts with the statement: "What's up with JEWISH people ignoring the rest of the holocaust?". If you say it is a global concern to learn from the holocaust, and remember all those that were killed, not just Jews, then why would you emphasise Jews in your title, rather than saying, "I would like to take this opportunity to remember those killed in the holocaust" which is infinitely less provocative. To be honest, I was inclined to infer certain prejudices which run alongside political rastafarianism - I have not, and will not, raise those, but you need to be extra super duper careful about how you say things when talking about such an emotive subject. This is not a statement with any religious, cultural or ethnic sway - everyone needs to be careful what they say.


Just as an addendum to all of this: criticisms of 'other' people's apathy rarely serve to engender anything other than the self-perpetuation of your criticism; ie, the statement is perfectly Hegelian. There is no other in this situation, there is only mourning.

[krastian]

I don't agree with that at all.

[noumenal]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Let me revise: Nigeria is the only African country in OPEC. US/EU industry already has its grubby paws into African oil in the other countries.

The US should be more concerned with Venezuela as led by Chavez. Venezuela is ascending within OPEC and will eventually become effective leader, most likely.

[spiritbears]

not enough....or we would be there...

[porkmarras]

The USA should be (and indeed are) more concerned with the ever growing Chinese economy that is taking the world by storm methinks

[noumenal]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

The USA should be (and indeed are) more concerned with the ever growing Chinese economy that is taking the world by storm methinks

Yes, of course. I meant "more concerned" only in relation to oil and OPEC in particular.

[foxforce5]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

you should not start threads about things you don't understand.

Are you saying don't ask questions? about subjects you dont understand?

?Also - how can it be proven that -Jews- ignore the rest of the holocaust and the war?

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by foxforce5

Are you saying don't ask questions? about subjects you dont understand?

?Also - how can it be proven that -Jews- ignore the rest of the holocaust and the war?

no, i was directing my post to the originator of this thread, who is a raging idiot.

and so i take this thread seriously for a second, i will say that the holocaust has been simplified and stripped down to the barest of of words, descriptions and interpretations which are: nazis are bad, millions of jews were killed, it's some of the worst things to ever happen to humanity. all of these are true, without argument, but there's more to it than that. yes, more minorities should also be remembered, but also, it seems that the descendents of gypsies, catholics, gays, comunists, etc. would rather forget about them getting persecuted and going halfway thru extermination, unlike the jewish people, who always make a point about remembering the past so it won't happen again. i also can say, that most rememberance of the holocaust are from jewish people to jewish people, not directed at the world, even though it gets massive amounts of coverage worldwide.

[golden child]

because jews are jews.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

no, i was directing my post to the originator of this thread, who is a raging idiot.

and so i take this thread seriously for a second, i will say that the holocaust has been simplified and stripped down to the barest of of words, descriptions and interpretations which are: nazis are bad, millions of jews were killed, it's some of the worst things to ever happen to humanity. all of these are true, without argument, but there's more to it than that. yes, more minorities should also be remembered, but also, it seems that the descendents of gypsies, catholics, gays, comunists, etc. would rather forget about them getting persecuted and going halfway thru extermination, unlike the jewish people, who always make a point about remembering the past so it won't happen again. i also can say, that most rememberance of the holocaust are from jewish people to jewish people, not directed at the world, even though it gets massive amounts of coverage worldwide.

as raging an idiot you think i am, you still don't get it. Germany allowed the slaughter of almost twelve million people in extermination camps and by roaming death sqauds, half were jews, and as we rasta say, half that story has never been told. They ignored the situation to the point of apathy. to ignore it in anyway today, would be the first steps towards returning to that German sentiment. genocide is the worst autrocity in human history, and the 21st century should be the time when it is finally put to an end, but this takes empathy and action from ALL people, not just those afflicted directly.

[acousticrock87]

An excellent satire on the holocaust and how people tend to treat it. A must see:

The Pity Card

[candymoan]

this thread is pretty pointless..
if you're interested in finding out more about the holocaust, the best way would be picking up a book..
once you do that, you will see the list of all the victims.. the numbers do vary from source to source, but the general idea of what happened is there..
i don't think the jewish population is trying to cover up the fact others were persecuted, they were the largest group to suffer..

like i said, picking up a book would be the best answer...

[Iain]

Originally Posted by jon boy

the newish memorial in berlin is to the 'murdered jews of europe' caused some controvesy because people began saying 'well what about all the jews that were not from europe'?

having actually been to concentration camps i can say that they dont just talk about the jews but all of the people who were killed there.

I believe it also caused controversy when people found out that the company that supplied the anti-graffiti stuff that coats the monument manufactured Zyklon B for the Nazis.

[Glice]

"Zyklooooooonn, Zyklooooooooon Beeeeeeeeee Zombieeeeeeeee...."

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Originally Posted by Glice

"Zyklooooooonn, Zyklooooooooon Beeeeeeeeee Zombieeeeeeeee...."

 

Super creepy.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Пятхъдесят Шест

 

Super creepy.

Did you see the in depth pictures of 'his' surgery on 'his' website? That was largely unecessary.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Not sure I saw those...

But this:

 

And this:

 

is enough. ew.