[Rob Instigator]

that is true.


oh the backpatches....

 

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

I have a fair share of SY t-shirts because they're my favorite band. But I've gotten to a point where I don't wear t-shirts with stuff on them anymore. I just don't like the look on myself. Maybe the only exception is like a football jersey I wear on game day (I know!) or random T's I wear when doing yard work. But mostly I wear just plain ol' single color shirts or ringers or whatever around the house these days. Might sound stupid to say, but I feel too old - like it doesn't fit my style anymore. I feel like a 30-something trying to look like a teen when I throw on my RHCP t-shirt nowadays. It's weird.

I do have some T's that - like sev said - are understated. A Captain American shield for instance. Or the Umbrella logo from Resident Evil. But these are mostly just a graphic, no words. Either you know what it is or you don't.

Right there with ya buddy. And I definitely feel too old for loud t-shirts. I like solid shit.

Small, tasteful, elemental graphics are OK for me, like the Aphex Twin shirt I have, but beyond that... nah man.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

always was, always will be. hahahahhaha. I wear SY shirts because its my fave band and I am reppin. how is that douche?

You know, you do have a point here. I forgot to mention that I do wear Mariners and Seahawks shirts. Not to the office or anything, but I'll wear them when I get home, or when I go out with friends. I guess there shouldn't be any difference between sports and music, but for some reason there is, and I think it's because music fans are their own special kind of asshole, again, as Symbols already kind of mentioned.

[Rob Instigator]

Falling out of sleep, I hit the floor
Put on some rock tee and I'm out with the door

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

that is true.


oh the backpatches....

 

I had one of those during my teen years. The main patch a guns n roses, the metallica and all the usual suspects surrounded it. It's still at me mam and dads thinking about it. Ah my double denim years were a sight to behold

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i was thinking about it yesterday and i think it's because it's not cool, in the original vernacular sense of detachment and self-control and concealing (or not having) emotion.

to wear a band's shirt to their show reveals too much faith, too much feeling and enthusiasm, like a born-again christian-- and that's a no-no in many circles.

going balls-deep into the experience or staying detached is an individual option though. so it's very fucking grating when it becomes a herd thing. like the girl i used to know who said she had a punk phase where she followed "punk rules". aaa h ha haaa haaa. aaaah haaaa haaa haaa. rules: so punk! hmmphhh

but anyway

Wearing a band's t-shirt to their show is dorky in the same way wearing a bowtie to a job interview is dorky.

[Rob Instigator]

maybe if you are 16.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

Wearing a band's t-shirt to their show is dorky in the same way wearing a bowtie to a job interview is dorky.

that may be, but dorky is overall preferable to conformist

dorkiness after all is just a quirk, whereas conformism is cowardice

i'll interview the bowtie

[Rob Instigator]

complaining about what people choose to wear is the most UN-PUNK thing one can do.

[!@#$%!]

a lot of jobs do require people to just follow orders though

but robots are replacing them

[Toilet & Bowels]

I don't care if people are dorky, I'm just saying. And I'm not sure about this either/or scenario of dorks and conformists. And I'm even less sure about middle aged men in 2017 saying about whether or not such and such a thing is punk.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

I don't care if people are dorky, I'm just saying.

i attempted to explain band tshirt dorkiness on the basis of earnestness vs. irony in the zeitgeist.

but i don't get why a bow tie to a job interview might be dorky. it would depend on the job interview i think.

a lot of academics, scientists, some artists and fashion people, politicians, lawyers, etc., are known for wearing bow ties. i think it depends on personal style. if it's your personal style, interview with it. if it's not, don't go faking.

the items of clothing you describe aren't inherently dorky. the dorkiness is dependent on context.

and dorky is not inherently negative. it's just eccentric/diverse.

your statement implies that the context is fixed and dorky is negative though. which makes it appear conservative (context can't be changed). and also conformist in that dorky deviation is assumed as negative

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

And I'm not sure about this either/or scenario of dorks and conformists.

seems to be adding up via the inductive method: the dorks don't give a shit and do their thing. those concerned about dorkiness might be... too concerned. with enough samples you can state a hypothesis.

but there's always been a war, hasn't it? eccentrics vs. conformists. usually with conformists as the persecutor. it's not such a new concept. dorks are just a subset of the eccentric.

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

And I'm even less sure about middle aged men in 2017 saying about whether or not such and such a thing is punk.

as an ethos, punk can inform the lives of many middle aged and (older and younger) people of all genders. they live that way, start companies that way, do all kinds of things that way-- from making music to farming to cooking in restaurants to investing. it doesn't necessarily require one to wear a mohawk and face piercings with diaper pins like it's 1977.

besides, cultural movements tend to find themselves mutated/reincarnated over time.

e.g. there's always gonna be punks and there's always gonna be deadheads and mods and even fucking skinheads and the majority will be conformists following the trendy-- it goes on forever

[Severian]

I agree with Symbols about the "uncool in the traditional sense" thing, but I'm still struggling a bit with why it's accepted (or, rather, encouraged!) in sports situations, but taboo in music circles.

Hell, go to a comic book convention and everyone dresses as their favorite character. Except for me. I don't do that shit. Fuck dressing up. Also, I've only ever been to like two comic book conventions. BUT... a lot of people do it.

Is there something inherent about music fandom that makes this expression of allegiance and devotion somehow socially unacceptable? No! There's nothing inherent in the culture. It's something else. And it has to be more than just, "Music fans are douchebags," though that is certainly almost always the case. It has to be more than that because sports fans are douchebags. Comic book and sci-fi nerds are self-important little shitheels. Everyone everywhere is a douchebag, and fandom breeds douchbaggery.

So what is it? Can we identify an actual causal agent for this effect? The answer is no, of course... no, we can't. Not scientifically. But we sure as hell can speculate about it, so let's speculate!!

[Rob Instigator]

I honestly think it was some asshole band/musician that wanted the fans/pigeons/marks to NOT show up with a band t on and instead go buy their overpriced fucking tour merch.

I remember the shock when I found out NIN was selling t-shirts for $45 in 1992! Jesus fuck that is like charging $75 now for a shit t shirt that's when I knew Trent Reznor was a douchebag corpo-brained wanna-be.

[Rob Instigator]

to me 'Punk" as an ethos was always about the ability to be yourself. There were supposed to be no rules to the look or sound or anything. a band with poetic ideals and good clothes could be just as punk as a group of male prostitutes in leather jackets who only know barre chords. I hate that in the mainstream pop hive-mind punk is solely the look that vivienne westwood outfitted the Pistols in. so fucking stupid.

it got codified REAL quick. same as "grunge."

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

I agree with Symbols about the "uncool in the traditional sense" thing, but I'm still struggling a bit with why it's accepted (or, rather, encouraged!) in sports situations, but taboo in music circles.

Hell, go to a comic book convention and everyone dresses as their favorite character. Except for me. I don't do that shit. Fuck dressing up. Also, I've only ever been to like two comic book conventions. BUT... a lot of people do it.

Is there something inherent about music fandom that makes this expression of allegiance and devotion somehow socially unacceptable? No! There's nothing inherent in the culture. It's something else. And it has to be more than just, "Music fans are douchebags," though that is certainly almost always the case. It has to be more than that because sports fans are douchebags. Comic book and sci-fi nerds are self-important little shitheels. Everyone everywhere is a douchebag, and fandom breeds douchbaggery.

So what is it? Can we identify an actual causal agent for this effect? The answer is no, of course... no, we can't. Not scientifically. But we sure as hell can speculate about it, so let's speculate!!

well for sports i can speak from experience-- sports are all about tribalism and "belonging". all the excesses in fandom are excesses of tribalism-- hooliganism, narrowmidedness, groupthink, etc.

there is, actually, a pleasure in that sort of group activity-- beating drums and screaming chants and whistling at the rival and practicing superstitions. i think it can be a fuckton of fun as long as one is aware and doesn't get swallowed by it and turns to violence or stupidity. it's an outlet for those impulses. i enjoy it on occasion. never seriously though.

in art and music however, at least the kind that's patronized in this board, the trend is towards individualism and difference and rejection of the mass. everyone a special snowflake. that however breeds its own in-group elitism and emulation, which is a form of conformity under a cover of nonconformity. so you develop a different herd, separated from the mainstream, but it's still a herd, and its own mainstream with its own codes and judgments. moocows of the world unite!

most humans, enlightened or unenlightened, are still tribal and seek refuge and comfort in the herd.

i appreciate dorks because in their social awkwardness and nonconformity they poke holes at conventions of all kinds and make innovation and transformation possible.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

One thing I always found stupid as FUCK was the seeming insistence by people that one should not wear a t-shirt of the band/musician you are going to a concert to see... Must have been some NYC douchbag asshole snob that started the whole bullshit.

The only douchebags are the people who told you this, Rob, and that's coming from a true NYC douchbag asshole snob.

That's the whole point of owning your bands tshirt, any normal fan wants to wear it to the gig, and who the fuck cares what anyone else thinks anyway? Do what you want.

I've never heard anyone say this once, btw. I wonder if I can get a Loren Connors tshirt through Cafe PRess?

[Rob Instigator]

indeed. it cracks me up how people that claim to associate with punk and indie and DIY and self-actualization try to shove their rules down one's throat.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hell, go to a comic book convention and everyone dresses as their favorite character. Except for me. I don't do that shit. Fuck dressing up. Also, I've only ever been to like two comic book conventions. BUT... a lot of people do it.

yeah, no. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against folks doing cosplay. And I'll commend the ones that look good. I'd even ask to take a pic next to an especially successful Poison Ivy or something. But me? Nah. No dressing up for me.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

yeah, no. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against folks doing cosplay. And I'll commend the ones that look good. I'd even ask to take a pic next to an especially successful Poison Ivy or something. But me? Nah. No dressing up for me.

voyeurs and exhibitionists need each other