[Jt]

Y'know, for all of Chris Rock's lunacy he made a pretty decent point in one of his HBO specials, in that it's bizarre a lot of people tend to assign themselves to a political party, THEN have their own policies dictated by that party's manifesto, rather than have their own opinions form a substantial basis for their political orientation.

In England there's a great deal of stigma associated with being a Conservative/Tory because of the Thatcherite legacy (one of the best economies in the world?!), so young people don't associate with the party even if their own beliefs fall more in line with the Tories than Labour. It's just not the "done thing" to be right-of-centre.

I think that's mirrored to an extent in the US of A from what I can gather.

[SynthethicalY]

I agree that's why sometimes I get annoyed with so many Liberals.

edit- I agree in spending some money on some social things, but there has to be a point where we say enough is enough.

[jon boy]

no one likes the tories because they are all dicks.

[Jt]

Originally Posted by jon boy

no one likes the tories because they are all dicks.

I rest my case.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by Jt

I rest my case.

so anyone who dislikes them is not agreeing with their own internal discussion? is that what your saying i am just trying to be fashionable?

[Jt]

No, rather that that attitude is so prevalent that many people don't associate with the right-wing parties in the US and UK because of the connotations they have, not because they necessarily absolutely disagree with their policies.

[timtimtim]

I liked him until i found that the stats in Bowling in for Columbine were shit and also 911 was mediocre when it should have been great.
Roger and me and awesome though

[!@#$%!]

i'd rather have michael moore with all his failings than love letters to idiot bush like 300!! racist tom clancy paranoias also annoy me much more than moore ever could.

[Rob Instigator]

check the "stats" for Fox News.
they do not even GIVE YOU stats to check.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

check the "stats" for Fox News.
they do not even GIVE YOU stats to check.

burrrrrrrrrrrrrnn!!!

very well said. a most excellent post to remind us how the scales are actually tilted.

[Bastian]

MM is totally out of his mind. He compares the headcutting, civilian-slaughtering terrorists in Iraq, the so-called insurgents, with the minutemen of the American Revolution. How fucked-up is that?

His movies, at least the ones I saw, like fahrenheit, are pure manipulative propaganda bullshit.

[demonrail666]

The real shame is that at a time when a voice of dissent has been most necessary, the best that has been made available is Michael Moore. He panders to a kind of sentimentalised pseudo-revolutionary thinking that seems to make no demands on those who follow it, other than to watch his films, vote Democrat and then sit back with a beer and watch all the world's problems dissolve around you.

[demonrail666]

What's intersting when reading so many posts by Americans on this thread is how people talk about being either liberal, or right wing. Don't you have a Left anymore?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

What's intersting when reading so many posts by Americans on this thread is how people talk about being either liberal, or right wing. Don't you have a Left anymore?

you mean like communists? i don't think there's anyone left on this earth who honestly believes in the desirability of state-owned monopolies of the means of production and a state-regulated market.

the left: there's an american left but they are a fringe minority. anarchists, socialists, and so on. i'm not too happy with the foggy "liberal" term, but this seems to include a broad range of beliefs... including some "leftists".

these terms are so vague anyway, i think they are practically meaningless. since the collapse of the Big Left into a myriad issue-based groups, i'd rather stick to precise labels such as environmentalist trotskyite or stalinist feminazi, free-market st-simonian and what not.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Voice of Reason? Voice of Treason? Flannel-shirted Egotist?

I think he's a self-serving dirtbag. I saw him in an interview where he was forced to admit that he had the Abu Graib prisoner abuse footage long before the story went public. The reporter asked why he didn't go public with it right away, in an effort to end the abuse. You should have seen how he stumbled to come up with an excuse. He finally said he didn't think anyone would pay attention. Really? That never stopped him from making his movies, did it? The truth is that he wanted to save the footage for his movie. He's certainly no humanitarian.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Magic Wheel Memory

I think he's a self-serving dirtbag. I saw him in an interview where he was forced to admit that he had the Abu Graib prisoner abuse footage long before the story went public. The reporter asked why he didn't go public with it right away, in an effort to end the abuse. You should have seen how he stumbled to come up with an excuse. He finally said he didn't think anyone would pay attention.

fuck!!

izzit true? that sucks! well i would not be surprised. but everyone in politics is a self-serving motherfucker, not just him. anyway you got a source for that? i'd like to inquire... what a fucker. still, bush is 10000000000000 times more of a reckless ashhole than moore.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

I liked the concept Michael Moore used, I just hate the fact that he made things up and stretched the truth on others. Makes him look no different than those he is trying reveal. Here are two links that sort of address what I'm referring to:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.mooreexposed.com/

I'm not saying I totally agree with everything these websites have to say. We need someone like Michael Moore in the "media" (if this is the correct term for it?). But I prefer someone who will stick to the truth and not try and bend and reshape things to make a better move / documentary.

yeah he's done some manipulative things but those websites are shit, i checked the exposed one and was nothin but bile... looking for info on the abu ghraib footage though ... hmm.... (ps- actually that columbine one is more factual and not so rabid)

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Jt

In England there's a great deal of stigma associated with being a Conservative/Tory because of the Thatcherite legacy (one of the best economies in the world?!), so young people don't associate with the party even if their own beliefs fall more in line with the Tories than Labour. It's just not the "done thing" to be right-of-centre.

I think that pretty much sums up Amerika as well. except instead of Thatcher, we have G.W and Reagan....

neither side can be trusted though. I think that most "neo"-liberals today would shudder at the large government their party would create if left unchecked. I don't even have to mention republicans these days....I think we all get it.

personally, I'm a staunch libertarian. I fall middle of the road in pretty much everything, because I feel that there are few black and white decisions ever made.

I believe in fiscal conservatism through limited governmental powers, yet I'm pretty hardcore socially liberal. personal empowerment and equal grounds for all will always just be a pipe-dream for me....the other issues each party takes tend to always overshadow the good things for me.

I do not like The Man telling me or anyone else what to do, but I realize that if left without any supervision, a small portion of the population will become unruly enough to make life unbearable for all.

police, roads, schools, limited social support and even a national defense are all things that a government should provide. otherwise, get off my cloud.

[SynthethicalY]

^^^ You said it best how I feel.

[Everyneurotic]

he's a nazi.
nazis aren't just right winged.