[youthoftomorrow]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

i always thought the argument was their best.

it is.

[atsonicpark]

Yeah, the first like 4 songs are all amazing and how about "ex-spectator"? the double drums.. shit!.. just seems like the perfect encapsulation of everything they ever did. "epic problem" took them years to write, but it was worth it. Greeeat.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Norma J

I don't think, although I could be wrong, that Fugazi have or would ever be influenced by Sonic Youth.

I'm relatively certain that both groups have influenced each other and have a lot of two way respect. Sonic Youth have been more vocal about it (and about Minor Threat influences as well), but then they tend to wear their influences on their sleeves (and record sleeves too!)

Fugazi from the start have been intentionally pretty obscure about everything they do, what it means, and where it comes from. This came in part out of Ian's frustrations with people turning his plainly spoken and highly clear (semantically that is) words in Minor Threat into a religion. So trying to pin down their influences more modern than James Brown in an interview is going to be nigh impossible. However, I think you can pretty clearly hear some alternate tunings used in a melodic fashion on Red Medicine that sure weren't as prevalent on the records before. I've heard Unwound bandied about as a probable influence on Red Medicine more than once, and as somebody who spent many a year in Oly hanging out with those guys (and I do mean guys, because I never knew Sarah, though I lived a block away from Justin and Brandt and worked at Thekla with Vern) I can tell you that Sonic Youth was undeniably Unwound's biggest influence.

[k-krack]

Probably The Argument, out of the three amazing albums I own.

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

I'm relatively certain that both groups have influenced each other and have a lot of two way respect. Sonic Youth have been more vocal about it (and about Minor Threat influences as well), but then they tend to wear their influences on their sleeves (and record sleeves too!)

Fugazi from the start have been intentionally pretty obscure about everything they do, what it means, and where it comes from. This came in part out of Ian's frustrations with people turning his plainly spoken and highly clear (semantically that is) words in Minor Threat into a religion. So trying to pin down their influences more modern than James Brown in an interview is going to be nigh impossible. However, I think you can pretty clearly hear some alternate tunings used in a melodic fashion on Red Medicine that sure weren't as prevalent on the records before. I've heard Unwound bandied about as a probable influence on Red Medicine more than once, and as somebody who spent many a year in Oly hanging out with those guys (and I do mean guys, because I never knew Sarah, though I lived a block away from Justin and Brandt and worked at Thekla with Vern) I can tell you that Sonic Youth was undeniably Unwound's biggest influence.

Hey, Sonic Youth aren't a bad band to be influenced by, I ain 't sayin' that. I just don't see the influence there, that's all. Cool if it's true - cool if it's not.

[atsonicpark]

Wii Weather is bad ass and it has balls and a huge dick, with which it rapes hot women who have large breasts, and some are underaged. Usually it is drunk when doing this, but sometimes it is high.

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by nicfit

STOP using my neurons!

Always a step ahead, eh?

...anyway, tell me your favourite song off this CD is "Bed for Scraping" and I'm becoming your brother.

[atsonicpark]

on the subject of fugazi

the song "f/d" off of end hits.. after the lo-fi part at the beginning.. when the song actually kicks in.. the music reminds me of pavement. go back and listen to it. it's funny.

[nicfit]

Originally Posted by _slavo_

Always a step ahead, eh?

...anyway, tell me your favourite song off this CD is "Bed for Scraping" and I'm becoming your brother.

Buaaah! I have 2 brothers now! I LOVE that song, and it's one of my very first "let's try to play this with my bass" tunes back in the days when I could play just the bass part of "Summer Nights" (yeah, from Grease soundtrack, so WHAT?!?)
By the way, there are so many good songs on this record, the mood is "variable" , the production is great, and it's an overall entertaining and interesting record. That's my opinion. Every record that boosts a triplet like "birthday pony", "forensic scene" and "combination lock" , all in just 9:30 minutes would end up in my top wathever list.

[youthoftomorrow]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Yeah, the first like 4 songs are all amazing and how about "ex-spectator"? the double drums.. shit!.. just seems like the perfect encapsulation of everything they ever did. "epic problem" took them years to write, but it was worth it. Greeeat.

"Strangelight" is probably my favorite Fugazi song.

[Norma J]

I bought one of the shows in their live series they sell on the Dischord site. Their first show. Listening to it now. Fantastic listen.

[evollove]

Isn't REPEATER a no-brainer? Even after all these years "Merchandise" is still so rousing. I only skip one or two tracks.

I like how Fugazi makes me chant out loud while driving.

13 SONGS - "Waiting Room" still stirs me. "Promises" and a few others, but some pretty boring and/or annoying tunes too.

Why does Fuzagi irritate me one minute, but make me want to start a revolution the next?

IN ON THE KILL TAKER has "Great Cop," one of my favs. And whenever I play "Instrument" for anyone, they are impressed.

But what the fuck are they singing? I think Guy enunciates even worse than Ian. Now I know how foreigners feel.

The experimentation and the good songs on RED MEDICINE make me want to rate it pretty high, but that's just because I forget about the boring ones.

For me, END HITS is one of those records where I'm waiting for it to really kick in, but it rarely does. I feel very inert toward it.

Yeah, THE ARGUMENT's good. No hardcore, though.

I made a playlist of Fugazi songs I don't really like and it was pretty long.

I made a best-of playlist which is a masterpiece.

[Rob Instigator]

Repeater is a masterpiece

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Isn't REPEATER a no-brainer? Even after all these years "Merchandise" is still so rousing. I only skip one or two tracks.

I like how Fugazi makes me chant out loud while driving.

13 SONGS - "Waiting Room" still stirs me. "Promises" and a few others, but some pretty boring and/or annoying tunes too.

Why does Fuzagi irritate me one minute, but make me want to start a revolution the next?

IN ON THE KILL TAKER has "Great Cop," one of my favs. And whenever I play "Instrument" for anyone, they are impressed.

But what the fuck are they singing? I think Guy enunciates even worse than Ian. Now I know how foreigners feel.

The experimentation and the good songs on RED MEDICINE make me want to rate it pretty high, but that's just because I forget about the boring ones.

For me, END HITS is one of those records where I'm waiting for it to really kick in, but it rarely does. I feel very inert toward it.

Yeah, THE ARGUMENT's good. No hardcore, though.

I made a playlist of Fugazi songs I don't really like and it was pretty long.

I made a best-of playlist which is a masterpiece.

Your taste in Fugazi seems to overlap a lot with my own. "Great Cop" is an all-time favorite for me, and Fugazi is an all-time favorite band. Top ten ever. Easy.

However, my favorite Fugazi album is the one that shows their range, power, mastery of mood and dynamics and ear for dischord and melody the most...

that album is motherfucking Argument.

You're right, it's not hardcore... but it's post-hardcore in a very traditional way. Look at "Epic Problem," or "Full Disclosure." Fuck man. Those songs rip. Then comes "Life and Limb," which is easily in the top three Fugazi songs ever. The album just doesn't stop.

As much as I love 13 Songs, Repeater, Steady Diet of Nothing and In on the Kill Taker -- and I really do love the fucking fuck out of those albums -- Fugazi started blowing my mind in a whole different way with Red Medicine and what came after.

Yup. I'm a latter-day Fugazi lover. Those albums are all insane. Every one of them. Just insane. Even Instrument, which is not technically an album I suppose, blows my mind. "Turkish Disco?" Are too kidding? That riff? What the fuck? The "Arpeggiator" demo that's somehow better than the studio version? Christ. Fucking superhuman.

[Severian]

I just blasted "Great Cop," "Arpeggiator" and "Turkish Disco" in the office on my computer.



Luckily everyone was gone, cause I definitely spazz-danced a bit.

[Severian]

So I was just reading the Pitchfork review of In on the Kill Taker and read that the album "sold around 200,000 copies in its first week alone."

This didn't seem quite right to me. The album barely cracked the Billboard top 200. Have music sales changed so drastically that what would be an easy#1 album today would have peaked at #186 in 1993? Really? Were THAT many people really buying music? This just didn't seem right.

So I looked into it, and according to Wikipedia the album sold 186,000 in its first week, so yes, that's "around 200,000." Wiki also said the album eventually sold 1 million copies.

Wait... what.

Fugazi has a platinum record? And it's not even their highest charting record?

This seemed fishy too. I remember when Pearl Jam's Vs sold 980,000 in its first week and broke records. That was also in 1993. Maybe it's just the statistics nerd in me, but it seems unrealistic that difference between the absolute highest first-week album sales of all time (circa 1993) and an album by an independent post-hardcore band that barely cracked the charts was was only about 800,000 copies. Meaning Kill Taker sold about 20 percent of what Vs sold, and the difference was, essentially night and day... record-breaking and barely-there, all contained in the space betwee — aspace that is ~200,000 less than the sales of the record-breaker. That would mean that the between-album variance in the top 100 would, theoretically, be almost non-existent.

Also... fucking Fugazi had one, possibly more, platinum albums? Really? That can't be said for Sonic Youth. The Velvet Underground & Nico only went platinum something like 35 years after its release. What's the deal here?

I've tried looking for RIAA certification databases, but I can't seem to find any searchable ones. I've tried the Billboard website, but they don't seem to be putting gold/platinum/diamond indicators next to their archived charts anymore.

I'm confused and curious. Anyone want to weigh in?

Am I just forgetting how unrecognizably different the music industry was in 1993? In on the Kill Taker would be have been one of the biggest selling rock albums of the year had it been released in 2016. I mean, seriously, what the fuck?

[evollove]

I just read something about the music industry not doing too well nowadays.

But I can understand Fugazi's sales back the heyday of a healthy industry. Fugazi toured relentlessly, playing fantastic shows, and it paid off.

Not sure how they advertised and promoed a new album. I'd like to hear more about that.

But Fugazi inspired devotion. And it was cool backintheday to order an album directly from the band! In my little neck of the woods, I remember all the cool kids doing so. That special order held a special place in one's CD collection.

Can't say why Fugazi sold more than SY. I'd think most listeners would find both very challenging, but maybe Fugazi is slightly more accessible? I dunno.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

I just read something about the music industry not doing too well nowadays.

But I can understand Fugazi's sales back the heyday of a healthy industry. Fugazi toured relentlessly, playing fantastic shows, and it paid off.

Not sure how they advertised and promoed a new album. I'd like to hear more about that.

But Fugazi inspired devotion. And it was cool backintheday to order an album directly from the band! In my little neck of the woods, I remember all the cool kids doing so. That special order held a special place in one's CD collection.

Can't say why Fugazi sold more than SY. I'd think most listeners would find both very challenging, but maybe Fugazi is slightly more accessible? I dunno.

Well, yeah about their relentless touring and fiercely loyal fanbase (at least in '93), but I can't find any references to them having a platinum album. That seems weird to me. Like, super weird. And the range between Vs. and IOTKT just boggles my mind. If presented with those numbers, a statistician or scientist would immediately question their data collection methods, and send their study to a few colleagues for review... I think.

Fugazi is, honestly, more accessible than SY. At least, 90% of Fugazi's output is more accessible than 90% of SY's. Rather Ripped might be more accessible than End Hits and Red Medicine, but even those albums are more accessible than Confusion/Kill, Bad Moon Rising, Evol, ATL, NYCG&F and all of the SYR's.

Still, Sonic Youth is a bigger cultural presence, and they're known by more "average listeners" by far than Fugazi. SY did the MTV thing a bit, and they've done the soundtrack thing and had a couple songs with radio traction. Kim Gordon performs at the Rock Hall induction, Thurston played with R.E.M., and they opened for Neil Young. It's shocking to me that Fugazi went platinum when SY has never really even come close (Goo went gold I think... but probably won't get a higher certification any time soon. It's already been almost 30 years.)

Not that I care really. Both great bands would do an honor to RIAA by having any kind of certification. But I just want to see some proof of In on the Kill Taker's million-selling status cuz I am questioning that.

[evollove]

SY is more famous than popular. Famous doesn't always sell records, I don't think.

I don't know about "proof" but perhaps shooting a quick query to Dischord for some info would not be a total waste of time.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

SY is more famous than popular. Famous doesn't always sell records, I don't think.

I don't know about "proof" but perhaps shooting a quick query to Dischord for some info would not be a total waste of time.

It occurs to me that even if Fugazi had sold 1 million records, they probably wouldn't have accepted given two shits about certification. I highly doubt Ian Mackaye would have done anything with a platinum record other than huck it into the trash.

Still, maybe I will send an email. I can't stop thinking about it and that's only partially because of my clinical OCD.