[gmku]

I guess that's the thing. I know Macs are the graphic artist's choice, photographers, too, and other artists. And in fact I use a Mac for all my writing and editing at work. As I go into my freelance career, I need a notebook/Macbook/laptop so that I don't have to fight other family members for computer time, but also to be mobile, versatile, so I can take it to assignments, meetings with clients, etc. I will be using it for writing, keeping up on e-mail with clients and designers, connecting to the web (wireless). Shouldn't I be okay with a Dell? Or is Mac still the better choice?

[val-holla-ing]

honestly, i'd still side with a mac, if for no other reason, the OS. all of the things you do would still be much easier and more intuitive on a mac than a pc.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by gmku

I guess that's the thing. I know Macs are the graphic artist's choice, photographers, too, and other artists. And in fact I use a Mac for all my writing and editing at work. As I go into my freelance career, I need a notebook/Macbook/laptop so that I don't have to fight other family members for computer time, but also to be mobile, versatile, so I can take it to assignments, meetings with clients, etc. I will be using it for writing, keeping up on e-mail with clients and designers, connecting to the web (wireless). Shouldn't I be okay with a Dell? Or is Mac still the better choice?

man, the question is simple-- HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU HAVE TO SPEND? sorry i don't mean to ask embarrassing things, but really, give us your budget. if money is no object, say you got aroudn $4,000, get a macbook pro loaded with everything. if you got a couple of thou, get a thinkpad. if you have $1K get a dell. if you have less, get refurbished. don't forget that in this world you still have to pay for your software, and if you're looking for open source/shareware windows has a lot more to offer than mac.

about the reliability of dells, or the stability of windows, pardon me val for saying this, but you're talking out of your ass-- dell business laptops are excellent, and a better deal for the money than a mac. xp pro was a robust & mature system and while vista seems like a bit of a resource hog, nobody in their right mind would call it unstable.

so, for the silly things you wanna do, like basically a typewriter you can carry around, if you wanna be mobile, i already told you spend $300 on that used thinkpad and you'll have what you need, no more, no less. that's what you do with your clients. LATER when youre racking up the $$ and you have $5,000 to spend buy yourself some fancy box. in the meantime, it doesn't make sense to get anything else, unless you secretly want to play games, and if that's the case, sir, do confess now.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

...so, for the silly things you wanna do, like basically a typewriter you can carry around...

get a typewriter and carry it around; you immediatly call the attention of everyone in sight, you seem like an important eccentrict auteur and you get to annoy the hell out of everyone within earshot distance when typing furiously away your shopping list, that alone is priceless, no amount of pc games, porn or message boards will ever come close to that feeling people can't ignore your presence and prose.

get a smith-corona or an olivetti...get one of them oldster mechanic ones, not the fancier electronic, those are for chumps; get the ugly metal beast!

[!@#$%!]

^^ ha ha yeah.

hemingway's "laptop"

 

more than the machine i'd be looking at software, apps, etc. a subscription to basecamp, for example, would be great to manage your projects. the so-called "web 2.0" (what a shit name, but anyway) is all about offering apps online. currently i'm moving my business books to quickbooks online. $20/mo, and nothing to install.

[SynthethicalY]

I used to have a typewritter, then I bought a computer, then a mac laptop. Go Mac.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

about the reliability of dells, or the stability of windows, pardon me val for saying this, but you're talking out of your ass-- dell business laptops are excellent, and a better deal for the money than a mac. xp pro was a robust & mature system and while vista seems like a bit of a resource hog, nobody in their right mind would call it unstable.

vista is stable but it lacks the functionality that tiger has and that leopard will most definitely have. i speak from experience when i talk about unreliable dells and how unstable windows is. i'm aware that everyone has a different experience, but i'm just talking about what i've gone through with these things as well as what i've heard from others about the same things.

[Tokolosh]

Please! I'm getting a little tired of hearing about how expensive a mac is. If you want a pc that matches it, you'll have to pay a lot more. And that bullshit about it being more for artists blah blah... Let's get something straight, it's a machine for allround purposes. Music, video, internet, DTP, writing, whatever. End of discussion.

ps: And don't come with shit like: "But pc's are better for gaming".
We're talking about serious work here. If you want to waste your life playing video games till you drop, get a console or shut up and accept the crapness of owning a pc.

[gmku]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

man, the question is simple-- HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU HAVE TO SPEND? sorry i don't mean to ask embarrassing things, but really, give us your budget. if money is no object, say you got aroudn $4,000, get a macbook pro loaded with everything. if you got a couple of thou, get a thinkpad. if you have $1K get a dell. if you have less, get refurbished. don't forget that in this world you still have to pay for your software, and if you're looking for open source/shareware windows has a lot more to offer than mac.

about the reliability of dells, or the stability of windows, pardon me val for saying this, but you're talking out of your ass-- dell business laptops are excellent, and a better deal for the money than a mac. xp pro was a robust & mature system and while vista seems like a bit of a resource hog, nobody in their right mind would call it unstable.

so, for the silly things you wanna do, like basically a typewriter you can carry around, if you wanna be mobile, i already told you spend $300 on that used thinkpad and you'll have what you need, no more, no less. that's what you do with your clients. LATER when youre racking up the $$ and you have $5,000 to spend buy yourself some fancy box. in the meantime, it doesn't make sense to get anything else, unless you secretly want to play games, and if that's the case, sir, do confess now.

I assure you, as I look now at less than 30 days of regular paid employment before I become my own boss, the "silly things I wanna do" hardly seem silly to me. They'll be how I earn a living.

I can get an entry level Macbook right now with my U discount for just under $1K, which is the max I should spend. So I'll probably go with that. There's also a Dell Inspiron through the U for around $600. I don't know. I could go either way.

Like I've said, I need another computer because I don't want to rely on the home computer, which is tied up by other family members often. A notebook/laptop will allow me to work in another office room in the house, or go mobile when I have to research at the library or meet with a client et cetera.

I appreciate everyone's advice, by the way.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

vista is stable but it lacks the functionality that tiger has and that leopard will most definitely have. i speak from experience when i talk about unreliable dells and how unstable windows is. i'm aware that everyone has a different experience, but i'm just talking about what i've gone through with these things as well as what i've heard from others about the same things.

see, the problem is that mac makes 2 models of laptop & dell makes dozens of them so when you say "dells" you may be talking about any number of products. i *never* recommend "consumer" laptops (likely what you had) because they are crap. they are crap.

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

Please! I'm getting a little tired of hearing about how expensive a mac is. If you want a pc that matches it, you'll have to pay a lot more. And that bullshit about it being more for artists blah blah... Let's get something straight, it's a machine for allround purposes. Music, video, internet, DTP, writing, whatever. End of discussion.

ps: And don't come with shit like: "But pc's are better for gaming".
We're talking about serious work here. If you want to waste your life playing video games till you drop, get a console or shut up and accept the crapness of owning a pc.

a load of balls, sir. a sassy attitude doesn't make your arguments right. of course macs are expensive. just last week i wanted to buy a mac mini for the work i do. i wanted! so i got into the apple store, configure the little fucker "starting at 599" and when i finish picking what i want i end up with a $2000 tab. i could build a much better box for less than half., or go for my dream thinkpad for the same price. "end of discussion."

they day mac allows me to install their OS anywhere and stops charging me a premium for having to use *their* overpriced hardware is the day i'll switch. until then, i'm staying clear of hipster machines.

Originally Posted by gmku

I assure you, as I look now at less than 30 days of regular paid employment before I become my own boss, the "silly things I wanna do" hardly seem silly to me. They'll be how I earn a living.

I can get an entry level Macbook right now with my U discount for just under $1K, which is the max I should spend. So I'll probably go with that. There's also a Dell Inspiron through the U for around $600. I don't know. I could go either way.

Like I've said, I need another computer because I don't want to rely on the home computer, which is tied up by other family members often. A notebook/laptop will allow me to work in another office room in the house, or go mobile when I have to research at the library or meet with a client et cetera.

I appreciate everyone's advice, by the way.

sorry for the miscommunication, i didn't mean "silly" as in "meaningless", i meant "silly" as in "any old computer can do that". really, the hardware you pick is irrelevant for the kind of task you propose. ANY computer can do what you want to do with yours.

see--if this is for business as you say, go mobile, do research, meet people, etc., then i'd advise you put part on your budget in a backup solution, like an external hard drive. laptops no matter the make and model have a tendency to get stolen or smashed (some survive socks better than others, like thinkpads and toughbooks), and you need a place to keep your business data backed up.

all my machines these days are business machines. i have no "toy" computers. i look at them in terms of "how much do they cost, how much i'm going to make using them". the tasks you require are trivial in computing terms. your #1 concern therefore should not be "features", but durability, cost, and availability/speed of service should you require it. if you're going to be mobile a lot (no plugs around), good battery life is an issue.

and not all dells are created equal. not all macs are the same. you could post models & specs of your shopping options or us to compare, if you want a look at what's under the hood of those very generic names as "mac" and "dell" . in any case, remember whatever you spend you'll need extra $ for a proper laptop bag, a lock, external storage, maybe an external monitor to plug in at home, replacement batteries (batteries are consumables and require replacement after prolonged use) and other necessary trinkets of laptop life.

[gmku]

Good advice. Thanks. I'm finding some good deals on mid-level Dells, paying attention to those things you mention like battery life and service. Wifi is also going to be important, and a full-sized keyboard since I'll have to write a lot on it.

[Tokolosh]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

a load of balls, sir. a sassy attitude doesn't make your arguments right. of course macs are expensive. just last week i wanted to buy a mac mini for the work i do. i wanted! so i got into the apple store, configure the little fucker "starting at 599" and when i finish picking what i want i end up with a $2000 tab. i could build a much better box for less than half., or go for my dream thinkpad for the same price. "end of discussion."

they day mac allows me to install their OS anywhere and stops charging me a premium for having to use *their* overpriced hardware is the day i'll switch. until then, i'm staying clear of hipster machines.

I'd like to start off by saying that what I wrote wasn't specifically directed at you, "sir".

Expensive? My macs were worth every cent I paid for them, compared it to the pc's I've had. They run without a problem since the day I got them. Never had to format them, and if I experience any little problems whatsoever, I know I can call Apple Care and within a min, I get someone on the line who will sort it out in a jiffy. As for configuring, I don't know what your talking about. The only thing you need extra, are a couple of dimms, a screen, and some software, which you'll pay if you get a pc too.
I don't even want to start on the issue of updates for pc's and where you should put them once you manage to find the right ones to download. With a mac, you don't have to worry about time consuming shit. Now you tell me what will cost you more on the long term.
I say time spent on problem solving, instead of getting down to business.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

I'd like to start off by saying that what I wrote wasn't specifically directed at you, "sir".

Expensive? My macs were worth every cent I paid for them, compared it to the pc's I've had. They run without a problem since the day I got them. Never had to format them, and if I experience any little problems whatsoever, I know I can call Apple Care and within a min, I get someone on the line who will sort it out in a jiffy. As for configuring, I don't know what your talking about. The only thing you need extra, are a couple of dimms, a screen, and some software, which you'll pay if you get a pc too.
I don't even want to start on the issue of updates for pc's and where you should put them once you manage to find the right ones to download. With a mac, you don't have to worry about time consuming shit. Now you tell me what will cost you more on the long term.
I say time spent on problem solving, instead of getting down to business.

ha ha-- about the "sir"-- i like to be respectful when i say it's "a load of balls". -- just rhethoric really. a little joke. please don't take it seriously.

yes macs are nice no doubt, as i said in my post i wanted one-- but i cannot justify the premium. if you can, then it makes sense to you. about apple care-- you had to pay extra for it as well, it doesn't come free. other companies offer paid service plans as well, just cos it's called "apple care" and not "tech support" it doesn't make it better.

see the problem i have with this thread is that people are carelessly comparing substandard PCs with good quality Macs. you just can't do that. if you want to run a comparison you need similar quality hardware-- and i say a thinkpad runs circles around a macbook, especially for the money, and if we're talking one of the dell business notebooks (business, not consumer notebooks), the value of the dell is superior, you can buy 2 for the price of 1 mac.

the other problem i have with this thread is that nobody is offering any good arguments in favor of the mac. it's like "im a mac fanboi you should be too". well there are arguments in favor of it and if we were going just OSX vs. Windows i'd say OSX is better-- however, Mac fucks you in the hardware purchase, that's how they make their money.

now, maybe the productivity issue is a problem with certain applications, i don't know. i have no productivity issues with windows. none. all the updates etc are taken care of in the background. i have free antivirus (avg) and firewall (kerio) and never had a problem. ever. but ever. since the inception of xp pro the so-call "windows troubles" are a thing of the past. xp home = shit, winme= crap, win2k=nice but geeky, win98SE=good enough. however xp pro is as solid and trouble free as any OS. what causes problems is substandard cheap crappy hardware that people buy at walmart for $100 and a "free webcam". well of course.

i've NEVER had a problem with my thinkpad and i have never but ever had to call any tech support (nor pay for it), but thinkpads also have paid services you can add to have techs at your beck & call. i've never needed one, dont plan to.

the fact is you pay a hefty premium for the mac. if you have the money and it makes sense to you, i say go for it. but be prepared to lay out the cash. i didn't have $2K for a mac mini-- doesn't make sense to me. but we're still considering the purchase of a mac for video editing. *maybe*. we'll see.

but when you pay a premium for the machine alone you're shirking other items like additional hardware, software, additional video screens, accessories, etc, that are not a trivial expense.

[gmku]

I think I got a good deal on a Dell, thru the U here. It's nice. I'm set.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by gmku

I think I got a good deal on a Dell, thru the U here. It's nice. I'm set.

congratulations. i do pray it's a latitude.

[gmku]

No, just a humble Inspiron 1720. The price is right, and I was sold on the full-sized keyboard, very important since that's the one feature that always bugs me about most laptops.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by gmku

No, just a humble Inspiron 1720. The price is right, and I was sold on the full-sized keyboard, very important since that's the one feature that always bugs me about most laptops.

ow... well inspirons will be ok if they're used mostly as desktops. for true road warriors, the latitudes & precisions are where it's at. the inspirons are HEAVY and so don't plan on long city walks with it on your shoulder. just be gentle on the thing, don't throw it around like a pancake, as i do. wobbly lids/ chassis are the achiles heel of consumer laptops, so beware of that and you should be ok. also battery life might not be as long as you'd hope, but then again where do you go that there are no plugs? i have an inverter for my car, works like a charm.

ps- the 17" screen should make it great to watch movies on a hammock , though.

[Tokolosh]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yes macs are nice no doubt, as i said in my post i wanted one-- but i cannot justify the premium. if you can, then it makes sense to you. about apple care-- you had to pay extra for it as well, it doesn't come free. other companies offer paid service plans as well, just cos it's called "apple care" and not "tech support" it doesn't make it better.

I rushed with my last post. Had to catch the ferry to the mainland.

Anyway, I understand what you mean about certain issues concerning Apple. I must be honest with you, they've pissed me off on a number of occasions. Apple Care are very quick and helpful, but only till your account expires, and they make you pay even more. I paid 300 bucks and only needed their help... maybe five times? The 1 year I got(free) with your machine was more than enough. You don't get it with a 1 year garantee?

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

see the problem i have with this thread is that people are carelessly comparing substandard PCs with good quality Macs. you just can't do that. if you want to run a comparison you need similar quality hardware-- and i say a thinkpad runs circles around a macbook, especially for the money, and if we're talking one of the dell business notebooks (business, not consumer notebooks), the value of the dell is superior, you can buy 2 for the price of 1 mac.

I haven't really checked out thinkpads to be honest. Does Adobe Premiere Pro run on them smoothly, without crashing?

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the other problem i have with this thread is that nobody is offering any good arguments in favor of the mac. it's like "im a mac fanboi you should be too". well there are arguments in favor of it and if we were going just OSX vs. Windows i'd say OSX is better-- however, Mac fucks you in the hardware purchase, that's how they make their money.

Yeah, some use them as fashion accessories. I couldn't care less about the design, as long as it does it's job.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

now, maybe the productivity issue is a problem with certain applications, i don't know. i have no productivity issues with windows. none. all the updates etc are taken care of in the background. i have free antivirus (avg) and firewall (kerio) and never had a problem. ever. but ever. since the inception of xp pro the so-call "windows troubles" are a thing of the past. xp home = shit, winme= crap, win2k=nice but geeky, win98SE=good enough. however xp pro is as solid and trouble free as any OS. what causes problems is substandard cheap crappy hardware that people buy at walmart for $100 and a "free webcam". well of course.

I'm not using a firewall. Never had a virus either. Apparently, pc's get infected within 12 mins if they don't have one installed.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the fact is you pay a hefty premium for the mac. if you have the money and it makes sense to you, i say go for it. but be prepared to lay out the cash. i didn't have $2K for a mac mini-- doesn't make sense to me. but we're still considering the purchase of a mac for video editing. *maybe*. we'll see.

I wouldn't buy the mini. Hell, you don't even get a keyboard and mouse with it. A MacBook comes out cheaper, but I don't think it supports Final Cut Pro HD. You'd need one of the pro versions to be able to handle bigger projects.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but when you pay a premium for the machine alone you're shirking other items like additional hardware, software, additional video screens, accessories, etc, that are not a trivial expense.

A lot of internal/external hardware I'm using comes from other manufacturers.
LaCie harddrives, Iiyama screens, Agfa scanner, etc. Apple won't stop trying to suck you dry with the configuration option though.

[gmku]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ow... well inspirons will be ok if they're used mostly as desktops. for true road warriors, the latitudes & precisions are where it's at. the inspirons are HEAVY and so don't plan on long city walks with it on your shoulder. just be gentle on the thing, don't throw it around like a pancake, as i do. wobbly lids/ chassis are the achiles heel of consumer laptops, so beware of that and you should be ok. also battery life might not be as long as you'd hope, but then again where do you go that there are no plugs? i have an inverter for my car, works like a charm.

ps- the 17" screen should make it great to watch movies on a hammock , though.

Well, I'm used to working on a 17 inch screen at work, and since I do so much copyediting and writing, getting to open those manuscripts up to 200% on a big screen really helps keep the eye strain down (and the mistakes!). Plus it helps me keep several windows visible at the same time--e-mail, net, word. Trust me, I ain't gonna be doing much lying around in a hammock. I'm going to be pounding the pavement for a while. In fact, if any Carolinians out there know of any potential clientele who could use the services of an award-winning writer/editor, let me know, por favor.

It's going to be my computer in my home office/work space more than anything, which is why I went for the big keyboard. Yes, it will possiby go to the library or other places, but I'm not gonna be hauling it around to parks and coffee shops for hanging out and looking cool while I pretend to write my Great American Novel.

Specs all looked pretty hefty to me, including long battery life (at least longer than most I saw in this range, at 85Wh).

[gmku]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ow... well inspirons will be ok if they're used mostly as desktops. for true road warriors, the latitudes & precisions are where it's at. the inspirons are HEAVY and so don't plan on long city walks with it on your shoulder. just be gentle on the thing, don't throw it around like a pancake, as i do. wobbly lids/ chassis are the achiles heel of consumer laptops, so beware of that and you should be ok. also battery life might not be as long as you'd hope, but then again where do you go that there are no plugs? i have an inverter for my car, works like a charm.

ps- the 17" screen should make it great to watch movies on a hammock , though.

Well, I'm used to working on a 17 inch screen at work, and since I do so much copyediting and writing, getting to open those manuscripts up to 200% on a big screen really helps keep the eye strain down (and the mistakes!). Plus it helps me keep several windows visible at the same time--e-mail, net, word. Trust me, I ain't gonna be doing muching lying around in a hammock. In fact, if any Carolinias out there know of any potential clientele who could use the services of an award-winning writer/editor, let me know, por favor.

It's going to be my computer at home more than anything, which is why I went for the big keyboard. Yes, it will possiby go to the library or other places, but I'm not gonna be hauling it around to parks and coffee shops for hanging out and looking cool.

Specs all looked pretty hefty to me, including long battery life (at least longer than most I saw in this range, at 85Wh).

& I don't know--is 7 lbs. all that heavy?