[!@#$%!]

i must spread around some reputation before giving to rob instigator again

but that post fucking rules

[nature scene]

yeah i agree totally

[Disgruntled Youth]

This nation was built on fucking immigrants, I being a immigrant myself can say if it wasn't for black slaves or asian building the railroads, Irish immigrants who helped build New York city & whatever other towns immigrants helped build you wouldn't have the great nation we have now. I can say you fuckers who oppose immigrants wouldn't have J-lo's ass to look @ & grovel over it. I mean how ignorant can you get. The Mexican population works their ass of in Cali to pick your fucking produce you so rightfully spend you dollars on @ Wal-Mart or where ever you choose to buy your food. & about food how many of you eat taco bell, Chinese, Indian, Japanese for that matter Asian cuisines or Caribean or what ever food besides fucking burgers cause we all know American food is bland as shit. With out immigrants you wouldn't be eating good. What other contributions besides cheap labor & food do you want? So if people want to protest let them do their thing & don't hate like a fucking Nazi!!!

Ps I know my punctuation suck but I just don't give a fuck Ha!!

[atari 2600]

I'm not against immigration. Only a fool would be. I acknowledge & fervently & firmly believe that immigration, i.e. the melting pot, is what helped make this country great. But, like the Sheriff alluded, it should be done legally. The bureaucracy for gaining legal citizenship should be streamlined & made altogether more accessible for those that would like to call America home, but in this post 9/11 day & age that's gonna be a tough nut to crack.

If a group of wanted criminals decide to form a union & protest what would they expect to happen to them? I know it's a sort of unfair comparison, but illegal immigrants really shouldn't expect anything more than basic human rights. They are not citizens. If the corporate pigs were not benefiting from illegal mexican workers being here in America then you better believe that the National Guard would be called out & the protesters would be forced by tank escort to march right back to Mexico. So are illegal immigrants hurting America? Yes, in these exponentiating numbers, yes they are; they are also hurting themselves. There's many a rural town where the plant or whatever hires only illegal immigrants now & this is one reason why Bush has had negative job growth. Then again, it's also ultimately the responsibility of Bush as the head of the executive branch of government & his appointed Attorney General to enforce the RICO law. Gaining national attention lately was a woman in Dalton (the carpet capital of the world as it's called in Georgia) that could not get a job without being able to speak fluent spanish. That's why the regulations on immigration are there in the first place. It seems all of you that jumped on Rhys are wearing some nice rose-colored glasses about the whole issue. Turning our heads the other way at illegal immigration at these levels only increases societal problems. The easiest to discuss is the cut & dried case of labor & employment issues. Illegal immigrants contribute to a culture of indentured servitude & do a disservice to themselves & their own potential by not becoming legal American citizens first. By being illegal aliens, they minimize their abilty to achieve prosperity by lawful means & they subjugate themselves to any number of employer labor abuses. The most obvious of which is that they cannot expect to be guaranteed regular hours, overtime pay or a minimum wage.
None of this should be too tough to figure out if one actually cares about the people at the heart of this issue instead of just waxing together in unison being all "peace & love & understanding, dude" which basically amounts to complete & utter mental masturbation; I fail to see how it accomplishes or solves anything or serves to even further a real discussion.

It is the promise of free & easy widespread employment (even without citizenship) that has lured immigrants to come to America to seek prosperity. This post will not win me a lot of support, because the truth rarely does. In the post, I am only addressing what can be done for the illegal immigrants that work jobs for which they should be required to have actual documentation instead of the fake documentation that they provide; there are always gonna be illegal immigrants in this country that work either fringe, odd or private jobs that do not require them to have documentation. That's just the way it is & the way it will always be & that's fine by me because it isn't like there is an abundance of these types of jobs. What I aim to express concerns jobs with major companies that have over 25 employees. In 1996, the RICO racketeering act was updated to include employers that hire illegal immigrants. It is their duty by law to adhere to this very serious federal mandate. It is the executive branch of the government with the President of the United States at its head that is responsible for enforcing the laws in this country. You do the math. It is the responsibility of the companies that are illegally hiring the illegal immigrants to cease & desist & it is also the responsibility of the U.S. Government to enforce the law of the United States. The companies make a candyass bullshit complaint that they are given faulty information & that the federal government should provide for the employment verification process to assure the employer that the applicant's information is legitimate.

But what actually will become of this whole blown-up issue? Absolutely nothing. What really will become a large problem sometime in the near future will get swept under the rug largely until the next Presidential election. The immigrants that have been here illegally for a certain amount of time will be allowed to become naturalized. The length of time for naturalization will be shortened probably (only increasing the same problem) & there will be a lot of political hot air puffed about concerning "getting tougher" on immigration law, but things will more or less stay the same & the illegal immigrant & mexican population of the United States will continue to balloon until the problems increase & reach yet another critical level.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

I never once said I want them out of the country. What I said was that its rediculous how they come to our country illegally and demand respect and rights when they're not even citizens. Ill go to friggen France and demand everyone to speack english, hows that.

edit: every thing atari says.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

How are these people a burden to our society? How?
the party line that "illegal immigrants do not pay taxes" is a load of shit
most peope that earn under 30 thou a year do not pay taxes. they get their taxes refunded to them. the immihgrants and laborers make below that amount.
now, while they do not file income tax, that is but one teeeny tiny boit of the taxes collected from everyone in america. immigrants pay sales taxes, taxes on gasoline, etc etc. THEY PAY TAXES, so anyone claiming the immigrants are freeloaders is a fucking lying asshole.

these people want to WORK. they want to be good citizens. most are very devoutly religious. most are good honest poeple (just like all people). what's the fucking problem? if latin americ was full od white people and if mexico was full of white people, there would be no problem.
for decades, immigration, ILLEGAL immigratrion from canada was completely ignored, cuz they are white and blend in.

think about it.

these people protesting want to be americans and love america more than the fucking ungrateful citizens of the USA.

I wouldnt care if these illegal imigrants were white christian nuns who never had the though of evil come across their minds. Dont demand respect and rights from a place you dont "LEGALLY" belong.

[Rob Instigator]

you seem to NOT UNDERSTAND that our country, the USA< is based on INALIENABLE rights. rights that do not require "citizenship" to be claimed.
the entire US economy is buil;t upon these people's backs and arms. they seek their american dream. how hard is that to understand?

they want the ability to work without fear, to earn citizenship without jingoism and fear.

everytime the US has some terrible foreign policy disaster on it's hands, it rounds up the usual suspects, imigrants, atheists, immoral people, homosexuals, etc. same tactic used by everyone from the Thatcher era brits to the Nazis in germany. it is a scapegoat.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

everytime the US has some terrible foreign policy disaster on it's hands, it rounds up the usual suspects, imigrants, atheists, immoral people, homosexuals, etc.

i guess I fall in there.
I also realise this country was built by immigrants, atleast starting in the 1800's.
But it must be mentioned as well that they are illegal immigrants. If they were given the right to have all equal rights then why would they be illegal immigrants.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

It is the US's fault that we have so many illegal immigrants. Cubans that want to immigrate have to do so illegally, and a majority of Mexicans do too.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

Thiss hit is so stupid. Its been on the news for a couple of days now.
Hey lets stop working in a country where we're not allowed to work to protest our right to rights. Maybe if they came legally they'd get something. They were saying shit how they help america and they work for america. So your telling me you crossed the boarders illegally, broke numerous jobs, because you want to help America? Fuck that man. Fuck off.

your an asshole you know that?

i saw a big immigration march yesterday in chicago. they were so passionate about it, maybe you could be passionate about not being a cunt?

chicago is quite a boring place as well.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

Originally Posted by jon boy

your an asshole you know that?

i saw a big immigration march yesterday in chicago. they were so passionate about it, maybe you could be passionate about not being a cunt?

chicago is quite a boring place as well.

why.
this country "WAS" built by immigrants. its not "BEING" built by illegal immigrants.

[atari 2600]

The "inalienable" in "inalienable rights" does not refer to "aliens" it means that the general rights that Jefferson wrote about in The Declaration of Independence cannot be wrested away from U.S. citizens. The emotion is admirable though, Rob. Maybe you might want to think about taking some of that emotion about this issue & use it in an applicable way to reality.

When Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence,
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
the document intended to very generally outline the rights of the citizens of America as being guaranteed "Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness." It is also important to note that The Declaration of Independence has no legal authority & that it is a document that was written to expressly be forwarded to the government of Great Britain.

The truth is that rights are, always have been & most probably always will be a social construct, which means that the rights that we have that shouldn't ever be able to be taken away are actually really just granted to us under certain conditions. If that seems unfair, then I suggest you follow my applicable suggestion that I repeatedly offer forth & start spreading the word about passing a constitutional amendment to end all repeat terms of office in this country to possibly see Human Rights Justice really done one day.

Also, during the writing of The Declaration of Independence there was a noteworthy controversy & the word "inalienable" was changed to "unalienable" & The Declaration of Independence is commonly misquoted even today.

...I found a link about it...http://www.crf-usa.org/Foundation_do...eclaration.htm

However, members of the Declaration committee of the Continental Congress that had been selected to write the document included Benjamin Franklin and John Adams who had different beliefs. The word “inalienable” was changed to “unalienable” and read “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.” In effect, it was the 18th century version of the 21st century argument about “intelligent design” versus “evolution.” I wanted to make certain that the Beijing publisher understood what he was getting into so I phrased the issue using Chinese philosophy, which I had studied in my youth, as follows:
“Laotse told Confucius ‘What gives life to all creation and is itself inexhaustible – that is Tao.’ While there is no mention of Tao in my books, the essence of the founding of America is in the Declaration of Independence, which states, “we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights and that among these rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. “Tao and Our Creator appear, to me, to be the same – the source of life which is the source of energy, truth and light. There is much confusion in America and the rest o f the world about what those ‘unalienable’ rights are, given by Tao, or our Creator or God, and what “inalienable’ rights that are created by governments are. My books deal with this difference.” An “unalienable” right cannot be transferred. You cannot transfer your life to someone else – or your liberty or happiness. An “inalienable” right, such as ownership of property or a title or a degree, can be transferred and governments can decide who owns property or has a title.

[Rob Instigator]

undocumented immigration was made illegal early on to avoid having unwanted people's enter the country. chinese, and middle easterners back in teh day.

the uS has the lowest birth rate among most of the world. we do not make enough babies to support our economy nor our growth. immigration helps with that.

this country is being buiil;t as we speak!

who do you think builds the highways and streets? who do you think builds sewer systems and utility systems? who do you think builds houses and apartments and parking lots and businesses and commercial centers and schools and churches and everything else under the sun? who do you think picks the fruits and vegetables you purchsase at the supermarket? who do you think???? immigrants that's who.

they are and always have been, building america. from italins and irish back in the day, to armenians, and czecks, to asians of all types, to africans to latin americans.
56% of all immigrants here illegaly are from mexico. that still leaves 4.6 MILLION that are from te vas expanses of latin america. our country is beter off because thes people risked life and limb and gave up everything they had to come here and work menial jobs that "normal" americans see themselves as too good for. whoa re you to judge them?

I have personal friends who came over ilegaly in the early 80's. my friend's mom and dad were university professors in El Salvador. They were rounded up by the american trained parailitary groups, ending up in my friend's dad's death at their hands. his mom grabbed him, his two sisters, and took off from el salvador in fear for her life. she mad eit across the border after a "coyote" (the people who cheat immigrants in order to smuggle them into the USA) raped his mo and his sister, his sister dying of heat prostration and dehydration on teh trip over here. His mother, a university graduyate, a professor, was a maid in rich man's homes and a custoodian at public schools, NO COMPLAINTS. to this day she works like that.

the Border patrol, a fully military operation since the early 90's, is taught to beat and abuse and physically inflict massive pain to "wetbacks". they do not see these people as humans. they are taught to BEAT them an KILL them. as one idrill instructor said to a friend of mine who dropped out of the patrol "if you have to kill a wetback, you may not want to because his children are there, but that is the best! If you kill them in front of their children then those children will not want to come back to the USA. There is nothing better than shooting a wetback in teh face in front of his children." these are actual words from actual border patrol drill seargents.
they can do whatever they want, rape the women, beat up and abuse the men and children, because as you say "they have no rights". That is BULLSHIT.
BULLSHIT!


the only non-immigrants in the USA are th native americans and we know what the "immigrants" did to them right?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

why.
this country "WAS" built by immigrants. its not "BEING" built by illegal immigrants.

man you gotta stop hitting the crack pipe. are you for real? look around you man! what planet do you live in? new immigrants are everywhere! did you read my post? try going to a day laborer center & have them pick you up & take you to a construction site. work. see for yourself. i feel bad talking to you in this tone but, cmon dude-- you seem to be foaming at the mouth

now about demanding rights, etc: rights are always CONQUERED, not handed out. ever hear of any power hierarchy "giving" rights to the people? ever? never! so, do you want people to just bend over & take it? is that how you deal with stuff? or are you accustomed to just ask your parents for everything? wake up man-- it's real life. go out there & live a little. see for yourself. then come back & tell us what you've learned.

and i'm not joking when i suggest you go & work like an immigrant for a day. you're old enough to start breaking out of your delusional bubble. it will do you good. the parking lot of your local 7-11 might be a good place to start.

[!@#$%!]

rob instigator for president 2008.

no shit.

i'd vote for him.

[atari 2600]

As a registered & legal voter, you can write Rob in as a candidate for President.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote. They have no incentive or even right to be part of the political process. I believe I've just illustrated yet another way that being illegal is not only a disservice to the illegal alien, but also to society as a whole. If anyone sees racial bias in any of my posts on this subject then it is quite likely they that have some issues with racism, because I'm merely stating the objective truth of the matter in a layman's fashion.

During the last century, my mother's family came from Italy & my father's from Ireland.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

Thiss hit is so stupid. Its been on the news for a couple of days now.
Hey lets stop working in a country where we're not allowed to work to protest our right to rights. Maybe if they came legally they'd get something. They were saying shit how they help america and they work for america. So your telling me you crossed the boarders illegally, broke numerous jobs, because you want to help America? Fuck that man. Fuck off.

"Until the philosphy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanantly discredited and abandoned then everywhere will be the threat of war."

check it, your ignorance will be the death of you one day, literally. you see how solid people gathered? its always the same ol shit in Amerikkka, leaders speak and movements cease, but it is not the case here. continue your racist/facist/imperialist philosphy, it only throught more coal on the fire. its the classic tale, which came first the chicken or the egg, well in this case, i'm sure the Europeans (myself included) were not here before those of indigenous ancestory, and this is reality and this is truth. as it has been said, these people didn't cross the border, the border crossed them, and somebody is going to have to pay the piper kind young lad. jah call upon the youth for they strong, so I encourage you now to live in the right and not the wrong. cast aside your stony heart and lively up yourself to the reality of life today. the change is going to come soon, not far away in the book, seen?

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

never! so, do you want people to just bend over & take it? is that how you deal with stuff? or are you accustomed to just ask your parents for everything? wake up man-- it's real life. go out there & live a little. see for yourself. then come back & tell us what you've learned.

I dont get shit handed out to me. unless you count birthdays and holidays. By standard law my family is pour. You can ask why we have the internet I dont care. Honestly I rather have other things. Id like to go to the record store and pick up a cd. Id like to take a walk and stop at a store to by a coke, but I cant. I know life is rough. I know you have to work for thing. I know what its like. I know what its like to have to use old bread bags to bring my food to school. I know. Ive had nights where all I had to choose from was rice or roman noodles. I used to steel from my school cafeteria so I could leave the place full.

Im just saying that illegal immigrants today who come to this country shouldn't be demanding American rights, until they are American. We have borders, different sides = different rules. Until theres proof of a promise land under God then Im saying dont say your french unless your french, your german unless your german. Of course now this statement sounds rather arrogant and racist even, well I dont mean it this way. Im just saying follow the rules of the country your in. They have the right to march the streets, and I dont mind it at all. But leaving your job, the reason you came here, to 'to feed your kids and stay alive under the hardships, dont be surpised when your fired. I laso realise they got permission to leave. Just milk the cow you got, dont take from the other farms.

We all say things in anger, Im aware some of my posts sound rather arrogant without full explanations, Ive smirched my internet persona, oh well. Now Im explaining myself.

Im done.

[Rob Instigator]

hey man, all they want is the chance to BE americans, to participate in the american system, to engage in democracy, which whether you think the USA is a true democracy of any sort, it is still a million times better than the terrible situations they have at their home countries.

these are basically 12 MILLION working people demanding to be jacked by the IRS, to be screwed by their politicians, to be lied to by their administration, to have all the fun we "normal" americans have.

[Rob Instigator]

I always wanted to be President, until I found out that Puerto Ricans, although citizens of the USA at birth like any other citizen, cannot run for president due to not having been born in the official 50 states.