[racehorse]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

no one will pay you more if the polish guys will do it for a fraction of the cost

well why not start your own company then?

perhaps i am missing something, but i just don't really believe this whole victim thing. it seems like many people in the country just take the easy option, which is complaining about it and stirring up hatred to others, instead of working really fucking hard and rising to the top.

[the ikara cult]

Id like to chip in about the "British Identity" comment,
1. He doesnt know what being British is anymore
2. If he's read all the literature on Social Identity theory id prefer he wrote us a nice flowery essay about it arguing how the current situation (which he knows nothing of) relates to how it was before Poland joined the EU, than sticking a mindless comment out.

[jetengine]

Sounds like Morrissey could also be describing Canada and just about any other part of the British Commonwealth. The problem is that because "we" (i.e., the pricks in government) felt so much guilt in the latter half of the last century over the cultural imperialism committed in the name of the British Empire over the preceding three or four hundred years, "we" decided the gates would be open to immigrants according to "multicultural"--rather than "melting-pot"--criteria. As a result, most of Canada, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand, etc. have become "countries of small countries"--often feuding amongst themselves all the way to the human rights tribunals. There doesn't seem to be any central dialects or even languages any longer, and the only thing that holds our countries together is an obsession with--and imitation of--the lowest and most informal of American pop culture. Just hearing Canadian news anchors refer to children as 'kids' and people as 'guys' is enough to make me puke these days. It seems we have lost so much of our central identity, and fallen such a victim to an inept approach to appeasing our guilt, we have actually adopted 'McDonald's culture' (the bottom of our old enemy's cultural barrel) as our only homogenising element! It would be hilarious if it wasn't so frighteningly macabre.

[demonrail666]

I agree with a lot of what NWRA is saying. Yes, Morrissey is speaking as the child of immigrants himself (as am I) and yes, he is relaying this information from his luxury home in Rome (as I, unfortunately, am not) but he does speak for a massive amount of British people that question changes that are taking place in their country. All cities within Britain, as well as a lot of smaller towns, are being forced to adopt the idea of multiculturalism despite everyday seeing evidence that such an idea is simply not working (either for people already born in the country or first generation immigrants). The official idea is that all parties co-exist in understanding and tolerance of each other's cultures. The reality however is that large areas of inner cities and small towns have become ghettoised, with people coming from areas like Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc living an almost autonomous existence with almost no pressure to adapt to the English way of life. This sounds OK until you realise that a lot of the younger people from this community can't get jobs because a number of them can't speak adequate English. The resulting mass unemployment in these communities has led to rises in crime, drug use, gang activity, etc. making parts of London, Manchester, Oldham, Leeds and Sheffield, police no-go areas. This helps noone.

There is an atmosphere of anxiety and frustration within much of the country now, where people feel unable to express their concerns about immigration wiithout fear of being branded a rascist. This anxiety, and a very real inability to air concerns, has led to an atmosphere of growing tension between immigrant groups that, without the possibility of a rational, open debate, will eventually lead to massive social unrest.

Morrissey is only saying what a lot of ex-pat British people are saying that feel no desire to return home because of outrageous housing prices, work shortages and the sense that Britain just doesn't feel like home to them anymore.

[Edit] I also agree with much of what Jetengine has said.

[racehorse]

Originally Posted by jetengine

Sounds like Morrissey could also be describing Canada and just about any other part of the British Commonwealth. The problem is that because "we" (i.e., the pricks in government) felt so much guilt in the latter half of the last century over the cultural imperialism committed in the name of the British Empire over the preceding three or four hundred years, "we" decided the gates would be open to immigrants according to "multicultural"--rather than "melting-pot"--criteria. As a result, most of Canada, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand, etc. have become "countries of small countries"--often feuding amongst themselves all the way to the human rights tribunals. There doesn't seem to be any central dialects or even languages any longer, and the only thing that holds our countries together is an obsession with--and imitation of--the lowest and most informal of American pop culture. Just hearing Canadian news anchors refer to children as 'kids' and people as 'guys' is enough to make me puke these days. It seems we have lost so much of our central identity, and fallen such a victim to an inept approach to appeasing our guilt, we have actually adopted 'McDonald's culture' (the bottom of our old enemy's cultural barrel) as our only homogenising element! It would be hilarious if it wasn't so frighteningly macabre.

our cultural identity has certainly changed in the last 50 years, but what have we lost exactly?

britishness? what is that?
perhaps it's just a perpetual evolution, just like the british made concentration camps in the boar war were evolution, and the colonisation of america (and the genocide of countless american indians) was evolution, and the normans were evolution, and the vikings pillaging of british towns was evolution. you can go back as far as you want, but the world is always in flux, and perhaps trying to resist it is regressive.

millions have been massacred in the name of the crown and colinisation since the 16th century.why is it so awful for indians, polish, banggledeshis to come and live over here? guilt is sometimes a good thing, it puts things into perspective.
hey, at least we are not at war, the polish potato pickers have no wish to stage a coup, and we are not being massacred in genocide.
it'sall much less exciting than the papers will have us believe.

[Torn Curtain]

The idea of the "Britishness" being in danger isn't new (cf Oasis and Blur in the 90s).

[quote=jetengine]Sounds like Morrissey could also be describing Canada and just about any other part of the British Commonwealth. The problem is that because "we" (i.e., the pricks in government) felt so much guilt in the latter half of the last century over the cultural imperialism committed in the name of the British Empire over the preceding three or four hundred years, "we" decided the gates would be open to immigrants according to "multicultural"--rather than "melting-pot"--criteria. quote]


A country never ever opens its gates to make itself multicultural or a melting pot. It does it to increase the amount of cheap labour available, which in turn allows it to exploit the already existing workers by lowering their wealth. It does so also by waging a campaign on the press and the media that will push the natives to be suspicious and racist towards the newcomers, either with humour or general mundane articles, amongst other things.

Good Morning, darling.

[Torn Curtain]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

A country never ever opens its gates to make itself multicultural or a melting pot. It does it to increase the amount of cheap labour available, which in turn allows it to exploit the already existing workers by lowering their wealth.

Yes.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i wish that fucker would just hurry and drop off the face of the planet.

Finally you have said something of value