[StevOK]

I took piano lessons in the first grade, but didn't learn much.
I started taking violin and vocal lessons in 5th grade, and I've been fairly amazing at both ever since
I started taking guitar lessons in 8th grade and I've been learning how to play anything with strings ever since.
In college I took piano lessons, but I still can't do much.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Yeah, you're as hopeless as the rest that disagree with me in that thread.

http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=18830

Right. I'll make it clear - I agree with you in part; I disagree with your inferences. I appreciate Keith Rowe (et al) and assumed - or positively inferred, if you will - that, given that he's stated no interest in the more 'proper' senses of playing guitar, he's more interested in the guitar in a fashion that is different to the way I play guitar, and presumably yourself.

You can say I'm mis-reading you; I can say you're mis-reading me (at the moment, I'm strongly inclined towards this). Does it really make any odds though?

[atari 2600]

You're an ass, terminal pharmacy. Always have been.
Like I wrote in that thread, it's sad avantgarde1
thinks so little of himself that he feels like he is incapable of learning chord forms.

'Cause you know, that's the only reason why he made the pretentious choice to "decide" not to learn chords.
That and nothing else.

[Cantankerous]

i can't read music. i tried. i'm basically musically retarded so i have no idea how i can manage to play and sing at the same time, let alone play an instrument at all.

[atari 2600]

Neither can I. Neither could The Beatles.
Well, Paul can sight-read a little.

I can laborously figure out notation if I really want to though.

I only play guitar and bass, so I just read tablature.

I can play other instruments some, just not great because
I've never stuck with them long enough to learn the disciplines.

I can't play and sing at the same time worth a damn.

[terminal pharmacy]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Neither can I. Neither could The Beatles.
Well, Paul can sight-read a little.

I can laborously figure out notation if I really want to though.

I only play guitar and bass, so I just read tablature.

I can play other instruments some, just not great because
I've never stuck with them long enough to learn the disciplines.

I can't play and sing at the same time worth a damn.

Originally Posted by atari 2600

You know what's really sad? It's sad that you think so very little of yourself that in your mind you've made learning to play chords and moveable barres into such a herculean task.
It isn't that hard with a little stick-to-it-ness.

hmmmmmmmm myabe a little stick to it ness is needed

[atari 2600]

That's not even applicable, terminal. I'm not like avantgarde1 who
plucks the strings of an untuned guitar like a fucking
village idiot.

And that's all well and good for him, just as long as he realizes (all I was ever trying to do is make him realize) that there is a broader palette of musical expressions
available if he only applies himself a little someday.

But that's not his argument. Instead he doggedly insists that he's "decided" to never learn even basic chords.

And I suppose you've got his back because you're
just as pig-headed as he is.

[terminal pharmacy]

it is exactly the same,in fact even worse seeing as you are a self professed non musician that can only play alittle bit, and you had such a go at avant. It's not him that is the village idiot. that is the last you will here from me on said topics.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Neither can I.

I can. Very well. Should I say that anyone who can't read music shouldn't play? It's really not that difficult. I taught myself. Really, really simple. You'd be surprised how many chords there are that you wouldn't notice if it wasn't written down. The arpeggio is God's way of making the guitar slightly less shit. If you can play already you should have rhythmic syncopation down.

The point isn't that it's easy to read (it is). The point is that people express themselves how they feel with the 'box of hate' as I like to call it.

Aaaaaaand ultimately it doesn't matter. I'd wager I'm in the minority of readers (here at least), and the fact that I can makes little difference to anyone's life other than my own.

[Lamont Cranston]

violin

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by Glice

I can. Very well. Should I say that anyone who can't read music shouldn't play? It's really not that difficult. I taught myself. Really, really simple. You'd be surprised how many chords there are that you wouldn't notice if it wasn't written down. The arpeggio is God's way of making the guitar slightly less shit. If you can play already you should have rhythmic syncopation down.

The point isn't that it's easy to read (it is). The point is that people express themselves how they feel with the 'box of hate' as I like to call it.

Aaaaaaand ultimately it doesn't matter. I'd wager I'm in the minority of readers (here at least), and the fact that I can makes little difference to anyone's life other than my own.

i'm sorry but i'm far too lazy to learn to read music seeing as it makes LITTLE DIFFERENCE to me because i can already play

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Lamont Cranston

violin

I've always wanted to play the violin like you and SteveOK.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

i'm sorry but i'm far too lazy to learn to read music seeing as it makes LITTLE DIFFERENCE to me because i can already play

Correctomundo

She'd rather spend that time writing her own music and playing the guitar.

Sorry the concept is anathema to the idiots that think all you have to do is own a guitar and fuck around with it like a monkey to be a guitarist. But don't fret, there is an instrument that is perfect for those non-inclined musically: the harmonica. Anybody with any musical talent can figure one out...eventually.

[Cantankerous]

i learned on my own in a room with a guitar, okay? no sheet music, no lessons, no nothing. that's a bit more impressive than being able to read music. i don't care if i'm technically proficient or whatever fucking snob term you want to use, i don't need to be because that style of playing is not tailored to the kind of music i write and play. i don't need to be versatile, i can play rhythm guitar and knock out an OK lead if need be, but really it doesn;t matter to me

[Savage Clone]

You can make interesting music without knowing anything about the instrument you're using. A group like Throbbing Gristle is an exceptional example, and while the Throbbing Gristles of the world are very very few, it does happen on occasion. Eno as well.

Over time, you are bound to wind up knowing "something" about your instrument just by immersion, and hopefully become more proficient, if even just in your own narrow application.

I do think people can make better "avant garde" music if they know what they're doing to begin with, just because they will have a wider array of techniques to draw from. Plus, you have a much wider range of expression at your fingertips if you get to know your instrument.


Me:
Saxophone, 7 years many years ago. I kind of hate the instrument now (aside from Jazz), but I was in the senior band as a freshman and had an affinity for it.
Guitar: 26 years. I think I'm pretty decent, but no virtuoso.

Other string instruments, I dabble.

[Cantankerous]

bowie and co. got all those great sounds out of their synthesizer because they threw away the manual.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

i'm sorry but i'm far too lazy to learn to read music seeing as it makes LITTLE DIFFERENCE to me because i can already play

If you're happy to play like that, that's fine. I really don't have a problem.

HOWEVER.

If you read from music - and I mean flamenco, bits of jazz or mostly classical - you'll probably be surprised at how little you understand chord construction.

[Cantankerous]

yeah but i'm not a flamenco or jazz or classical guitarist! so who cares?

[terminal pharmacy]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

All one needs to know to get started with the
guitar and play a whole variety of material is how to read and play from tab. Are you a fucking idiot?

rhetorical question alert

yes i am an idiot, but the fact is i am a nice one and not a fucking CUNT!!!!! like you. I am willing to pass on any knowledge i have rather than tear someone down because of my own inadequacies....

[Crumb's Crunchy Delights]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

yeah but i'm not a flamenco or jazz or classical guitarist! so who cares?

but you could be with a bit of effort. don't give up, don't settle for indie-rock.