[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by Kegmama

No. He was gay.

And it's a known fact that homosexuals aren't racist.

Not true I'm afraid, madame Keg - me and a mate of mine were at a pub in Old Compton Street (Soho's Homo Street supreme), and we were muttering disgustedly at various gay types wearing fascist T-shirts and sporting neo-fascist tattoos - stupid fucking twats. Also, notorious Combat-88 member Gary Crane was secretly into the gay scene in a big way, stewarding Gay Pride rallies and the like (he died of Aids in the early 90's). And if you want to look further into the field of "homosexuals with dubious fascist tendencies", you need look no further than some of the witterings of Death In June's Douglas Pearce.

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Not true I'm afraid, madame Keg - me and a mate of mine were at a pub in Old Compton Street (Soho's Homo Street supreme), and we were muttering disgustedly at various gay types wearing fascist T-shirts and sporting neo-fascist tattoos - stupid fucking twats. Also, notorious Combat-88 member Gary Crane was secretly into the gay scene in a big way, stewarding Gay Pride rallies and the like (he died of Aids in the early 90's). And if you want to look further into the field of "homosexuals with dubious fascist tendencies", you need look no further than some of the witterings of Death In June's Douglas Pearce.

And that's just to start with.

[jon boy]

i am pretty sure that he wasnt racist.

[Toilet & Bowels]

warhol even looks a bit like hitler, if didn't bleach his hair and had a little 'tache you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

And if you want to look further into the field of "homosexuals with dubious fascist tendencies", you need look no further than some of the witterings of Death In June's Douglas Pearce.

that whole early 80s scene was full of neo-nazi flirtations, people were so dumb back then

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

warhol even looks a bit like hitler, if didn't bleach his hair and had a little 'tache you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart

On the Victor Bockris's biography it says that when he lost weight in the mid-60's he started dressing like an SS soldier. The plot thickens........

[Toilet & Bowels]

i was just reading a website that says david tibet had ties to the far right

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

i was just reading a website that says david tibet had ties to the far right

Mr T&B - was that on the Stewart Home site by any chance?

Anyone in Death In June and Sol Invictus probably, but David Tibet, of all people?

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Mr T&B - was that on the Stewart Home site by any chance?

yes, is he a nutter?

[MellySingsDoom]

Yes, just a little bit. He's made a load of daft accusations about various people being fascists. Tibet's about as fascist as I am the King of Belgium. He's tried to paste various Whitehouse members as being pro-fascist, which is a joke and a half. Having said that, he did manage to embarrass Tony Wakeford about his National Front membership (which got him canned from Death In June), so fair play to him on that. That aside, Mister Home should stick to art pranks and writing wildly homoerotic fiction.

Didn't David Tibet also have something to do with the fact that Death In June are largely ignored on the ''England's Hidden Reverse'' book by David Keenan? I remember reading a letter about it on The Wire a while ago.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Didn't David Tibet also have something to do with the fact that Death In June are largely ignored on the ''England's Hidden Reverse'' book by David Keenan? I remember reading a letter about it on The Wire a while ago.

i think it was that death in june didn't respond to david keenan's request to interview them, and that certain things about DiJ had to be taken out of the book for libel reasons.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I don't know and I don't think that I really care enough, just curious.


Anyway, I have a book that that has a section that documents with words and pictures a trip of Warhola to the Bronx. All these black kids were being friendly to him and he was terrorized and wouldn't want to have anything to do with black people in the area.

I've also always found it odd that even though NYC certainly didn't have a shortage of gay black artists/activists in the 60's, the factory virtually had no blacks visiting it or forging artistic alliances in it.

Who knows, maybe he wasn't a racist at all.

I think I remember reading the same account years ago.
Was he overtly racist? No, but he obviously preferred white hustler types to other poor people who he wasn't too keen on in general.

Although, he obviously loved his mother, a poor person. He never did much for his brothers as far as I know.

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

On the Victor Bockris's biography it says that when he lost weight in the mid-60's he started dressing like an SS soldier. The plot thickens........

Good thing Henry Geldzahler never saw him in the outfit then.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I don't know and I don't think that I really care enough, just curious.


Anyway, I have a book that that has a section that documents with words and pictures a trip of Warhola to the Bronx. All these black kids were being friendly to him and he was terrorized and wouldn't want to have anything to do with black people in the area.

I've also always found it odd that even though NYC certainly didn't have a shortage of gay black artists/activists in the 60's, the factory virtually had no blacks visiting it or forging artistic alliances in it.

Who knows, maybe he wasn't a racist at all.

I vaguely remember reading the same account.

White hustler types were just culturally more likely to be among his circle, but, in general, Andy wasn't too keen on poor people. It's likely he was extemely nervous to be in that neighboorhood.

Although once very impoverished himself, he had managed against the odds to elevate his social status via hard work and moxie. He cared, as all know, immensely for his mother, but, as far as I know, never did much of anything for his siblings while alive.

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

On the Victor Bockris's biography it says that when he lost weight in the mid-60's he started dressing like an SS soldier. The plot thickens........

It's a good thing Henry Geldzahler never saw him in the outfit then.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Not true I'm afraid, madame Keg - me and a mate of mine were at a pub in Old Compton Street (Soho's Homo Street supreme), and we were muttering disgustedly at various gay types wearing fascist T-shirts and sporting neo-fascist tattoos - stupid fucking twats. Also, notorious Combat-88 member Gary Crane was secretly into the gay scene in a big way, stewarding Gay Pride rallies and the like (he died of Aids in the early 90's). And if you want to look further into the field of "homosexuals with dubious fascist tendencies", you need look no further than some of the witterings of Death In June's Douglas Pearce.

i think you missed the irony in her post, but still, interesting picture you paint in yours.

Well, he was also a close friend and collaborator of Jonas Mekas. I was generally wondering about the lack of blacks at The Factory, nothing to be blown out of proportions. I'd say the vast majority of people at The Factory were most certainly not who you'd call a racist.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Well, he was also a close friend and collaborator of Jonas Mekas. I was generally wondering about the lack of blacks at The Factory, nothing to be blown out of proportions. I'd say the vast majority of people at The Factory were most certainly not who you'd call a racist.

It's also a fairly safe bet that most Factory denizens were extremely self-centered and more than a little delusional. Disdain for "outsiders" just flows naturally from that. Obviously, a degree of paranoia was present due to the drug use as well.

In turn, the people at The Factory were probably viewed as freaks by many blacks.

The Sixties saw the less-than-smooth birth of the Civil Rights Movement and the late sixties the rise of the Black Panthers. Andy may have avoided blacks for that reason. He didn't see violence as a vehicle for social change.

Originally Posted by atari 2600

I vaguely remember reading the same account.

White hustler types were just culturally more likely to be among his circle, but, in general, Andy wasn't too keen on poor people. It's likely he was extemely nervous to be in that neighboorhood.

Although once very impoverished himself, he had managed against the odds to elevate his social status via hard work and moxie. He cared, as all know, immensely for his mother, but, as far as I know, never did much of anything for his siblings while alive.

Did he not give his nephew some work, at one point? I'd count that as someone who somehow is doing something for his siblings. He also kept in touch with them sporadically. Maybe he just loved them without feeling like they had anything in common, which I find more likely.

[demonrail666]

The story I heard about him giving a painting to his nephew was that, while I think he eventually did, he was really reluctant to do so. At least that's the nephew's account.