[Glice]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Exactly.

One can avoid adhering to any particular polical ideology and still say things that are racist, be capable of actions that are racist etc.

Say, someone like Sting battling against the destruction of the amazonic forest is an unconscious racist stance, in that he's using a personal cause that he has at heart without thinking of what the consequences of what he has in mind would have in the area, with locals becoming jobless as a result. He obviously doesn't mean it to be a racist thing, yet his propaganda is potentially racist.

Brilliant, yes. The impossibility of a totalising narrative, and the necessity of a more inclusive, and vague, one.

[Glice]

Also, Sting is clearly racially motivated. Otherwise he wouldn't be a cunt, innit?

The Bible is considered to be a political book by the communists, so that's not a far-fetched idea at all.

[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

sad.

[Rob Instigator]

racist means just one thing. thinking/believing one race inherently superior just by virtue of being of said race, or vice versa, holding someone or some people as inherently lesser just by virtue of being born a certain race.

anything else is other forms of ignorance, from jingoism, sexism, etc.

since the masses only hear the lowest common denominator there are a lot of people in the USA who believe that a racist is solely and always someone who puts down african-americans, they cannot think a black man could be racist, because they have the wrong idea of what it means to be racist.

and everyone is a dumb ass.

I am a communist who happens to think that the nazis and the fascists introduced some good things to the world. Am I racist? Am I fuck.

[Rob Instigator]

Nope, you would be a relativist, because you understand that total evil or total good is a very rare ideal, and not truly descriptive of the world around us.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

racist means just one thing. thinking/believing one race inherently superior just by virtue of being of said race, or vice versa, holding someone or some people as inherently lesser just by virtue of being born a certain race.

anything else is other forms of ignorance, from jingoism, sexism, etc.

since the masses only hear the lowest common denominator there are a lot of people in the USA who believe that a racist is solely and always someone who puts down african-americans, they cannot think a black man could be racist, because they have the wrong idea of what it means to be racist.

and everyone is a dumb ass.

THEY THEY THEY THEY THEY THEY THEY

You're not outside of society.

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I am a communist who happens to think that the nazis and the fascists introduced some good things to the world. Am I racist? Am I fuck.

Are we talking of Italian fascism (ie the Original one)? If so, I'm inclined to agree, up until the point that Mussolini turned into a racist arse....

..then again, didn't Benito M arrange an invasion of Abbysinya (i.e modern day Ethiopia) BEFORE he turned into a etc etc? Hmm...I need to do my homework more often on this stuff.

As an aside, I find it dead interesting how so many Italian Futurists had a prediliction towards an idealogy of Italian fascism (the re-statement of the Mezzogiorno, and so forth)...I like Marinetti's ideas in general, but can;t help but think that he was very much out of his depth when it came to politics...

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Nope, you would be a relativist, because you understand that total evil or total good is a very rare ideal, and not truly descriptive of the world around us.

The communism that I have in mind I am dead sure wouldn't happen without some form cruelty for the sake of everybody's good. You have to be realistic about these sort of things.

[Rob Instigator]

the italisn futirists did NOT have a predilection for fascism.

They were a prime INFLUENCE in the development of the idea of fascism, meaning rule by the elite.

not the same thing.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

They were a prime INFLUENCE in the development of the idea of fascism, meaning rule by the elite.

'Rule by the elite' would apply to mercantilism, feudalism, Platonism, Confucianism, Arcadianism (by many accounts) and most other systems of governance. Try again.

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Are we talking of Italian fascism (ie the Original one)? If so, I'm inclined to agree, up until the point that Mussolini turned into a racist arse....

..then again, didn't Benito M arrange an invasion of Abbysinya (i.e modern day Ethiopia) BEFORE he turned into a etc etc? Hmm...I need to do my homework more often on this stuff.

As an aside, I find it dead interesting how so many Italian Futurists had a prediliction towards an idealogy of Italian fascism (the re-statement of the Mezzogiorno, and so forth)...I like Marinetti's ideas in general, but can;t help but think that he was very much out of his depth when it came to politics...

I am thinking about the introduction of certain social structures that came about in Italy with the Fascists, like the pensions scheme , which didn't exist before. I abhor the ideals and the partial racism that is inherent to both the fascists and the nazis, and the consequent atrocities that happened in their wake, but I can still recognise the little good that they did for the working classes' sake.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the italisn futirists did NOT have a predilection for fascism.

They were a prime INFLUENCE in the development of the idea of fascism, meaning rule by the elite.

not the same thing.

Erm, there's futurism and opportunistic futurism, if you get what i mean.

[MellySingsDoom]

sarram - It's interesting to note that Benito M was a fully blown socialst in his journalist days...also too that he aligned himself to a "Roman" idea of the "fasces" concept - very different to the Prussian "Blut und Boden" ideals of the post-WWI German nationalists. Also too, forget not that the English political class at that time was also very national, racist, and anti-Semitic as a whole....as a counterpoint to that, wasn't it Gladstone who was nominally Jewish?

When I say working classes I hope that the internationalism that I atrribute to that term comes across. The term ''Working Classes'' has often a very ambiguous meaning to certain people. The working classes, that most struggling of social entities, are also capable of producing the sort of people that slavo has started a thread for, so any romanticism that is attributed to them is only that: romanticism.

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the italisn futirists did NOT have a predilection for fascism.

They were a prime INFLUENCE in the development of the idea of fascism, meaning rule by the elite.

not the same thing.

Good call - they were certainly very nationalist, but didn't invent fascism, as it were. From my (very limited) understanding of Italian politics post-World War One, the two strands became mixed up/conflated after a short period of time, which makes an interesting comparison to German nationalism/fascism. ..and of course, there was a certain parallel thing going on in England at that point in time, too...

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

sarram - It's interesting to note that Benito M was a fully blown socialst in his journalist days...also too that he aligned himself to a "Roman" idea of the "fasces" concept - very different to the Prussian "Blut und Boden" ideals of the post-WWI German nationalists. Also too, forget not that the English political class at that time was also very national, racist, and anti-Semitic as a whole....as a counterpoint to that, wasn't it Gladstone who was nominally Jewish?

Slavery. I find that it's more than a bit cheeky of the English to blame everyone for atrocities when they too had a hand at mass slavery and consequent mass graves. Just because it doesn't come in numbers it doesn't mean that it wasn't a numerous death toll.

[MellySingsDoom]

^^^Oh aye, we fucked up a huge part of the world thanks to our actions. Thank Christ for the Jamaicams for basically booting the English out in the 1870's.

EDIT: Evidently, I can't spell "Jamaicans"....

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by _slavo_

I came across this documentary movie today and, after watching it, I can honestly say it's one of the most dreadful things I've ever seen. It's even worse when you realize that behavior like that (open fascist propaganda included raised right hand greetings, denial of holocaust, etc erc) is silently tolerated, even with a discreet approval of the government.

http://current.com/items/84906361_from_russia_with_hate

In moments like that I'm pretty happy to live in a country like I do.

I don't understand when Neo Nazis deny the holocaust because why would they when it's something they would want to happen.