[RanaldoNecro]

First of all, everything is political. So we should not only include politics of the United Nations and D.C. but also the politics of tuition rates, property tax, rent control. There is no avoiding it as a human being...Introducing your politics into your music is kinda inseperable. There has to be a balance.

What bothers me is that people in the US make a career out 'destroying'. Like it is silly. When Johnny Rotten left the Sex Pistols he know he made his point and moved on...To profit off of destroying is SHAMEFUL

rage against the machine's case, very juvenile, screaming "wahh waaah waah I don;t like the bad boogey man wahhhh

People in the US make a career out continually underming the system...Thats silly. Rage against the machine for example, I like them, but the politics is too much.... At what point does a young revolutinary social activist become another suit in with a false face...If they don't like the Machine they don't fly, don't charge for concerts. At what point do they start building up? If you like anarchy then I'm gonna steal your gear...LOL

[RanaldoNecro]

stop the war while adopting a 'frican variety

No War guitar strap! LOL http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31342

[RanaldoNecro]

If you want to make a change in politics, run for senate, don't start a band

I disagree tremendously. Think of politics as a lion that needs to be tamed...When a protest singer sings, he is not singing to the politicians with an expediant agenda, he is speaking to the voter with a mind and a vote. Politicans are the first to buckle under the weight of public opinion...

Actors and musicans have an agenda, in the roles they play and the songs they sing...They are very vital to the health of the people's belief..
They can articluate the argument better, and that what it comes down to...which side of the spectrum argues their point more effectively...

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Glice

Herr Rail: are you talking about people being explicitly political or what? Because I think a lot of Brits found that a bit hokey around the time of Red Wedge.

Yeah, I should clarify my original post.

I do believe that every action is a political one in so far as it either reinforces or critiques a given 'system'. Whether anyone living in that system can ever properly attack it is a difficult one. Personally I think it can but a flood of theory says I'm wrong.

Whatever I'm saying, it isn't that we need to return to the tub-thumping of red wedge, but rather the way in which culture can be used as a questioner of consensual values. In this sense It's my belief that a group like Public Enemy were more politically useful in their attitude to the language of music than they were lyrically. Any innovation in musical structure or attempt to redefine how music can be produced or distributed is (for me) far more politically useful than seeing a singer on stage with an acoustic guitar bemoaning the war. In this sense, whether he wants to acknowledge it or not, I'd say that someone like Dr Evil is potentially far more political than someone like Chris Martin. Spouting reactionary ideas via a radicalised language is far more useful than spouting supposedly radical ones via a dead one. The Dixie Chicks call into question a particular issue but ultimately uphold the system that allows for it. Dr Evil calls into question that very system simply by existing, it seems to me. Seeing him sing 'More Punnany' on daytime TV would be one of the most radical things in music I can think of right now.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by RanaldoNecro

At what point does a young revolutinary social activist become another suit in with a false face..

"they tried again to change the system, but this time it was too late, there was no system left to change, the people ran the entire land..the subverts became politicians and finally got the upperhand, meanwhile back in Subvert City, someone's writing on the wall, FUCK YOUR GOVERNMENT spraypaint hero in subvert city, its subvert rule! its subvert rule! sub! vert! sub! vert! sub! vert!"

Revolution means change. You stop being a revolutionary when you stop changing as a human being, and become complacent in whatever it is you make your routine, even if that routine is seemingly revolutionary.

[RanaldoNecro]

the extreme in music is sometimes necessary to contain and channel the extremes in reality..

Excellent point SuchFriends...I would rather hear gangster rap then get shot without warning while I take photos of daisys in the Ghetto...

[Cantankerous]

real politics in music related to revolution and the musician living in an oppressive, shit situation because of the government: A+

Originally Posted by demonrail666

celebrity chic, post Live Aid, carrot cake, herbal tea, stop the war while adopting a 'frican variety.

too bad you can't get a lower grade than a big, red F

[tesla69]

well you can't even mention facts under the current zietgeist because you get smeared as a "conspiracy theorist". So waht the FBI set up activists and had them murdered, discussing these things makes you a conspiracy theorist, at least according to many people on this board. I find the current generation to be assertively apathetic, but I think this comes out of fear , fear of power and fear of their own insecurities.

It is interesting to me the paid attack stooges seem to have vanished from this board now that the occupation in Iraq is a fait accompli. Or maybe Leatherbrain had to get a real job outside of the CT fusion center LOL!

[Rob Instigator]

public enemy sought to destroy "music" and to ignite a fire in the asses of complacent black people.

they did not succeed in the former because the "MUSIC" industry made it prohibitively expensive to sample more than one or two songs for any given track. the fucking assholes

they did not suceed in the latter because they were overshadowed by meaningless, self-agtrandizing, gang and prison worship rap a la 2-Pac and Biggie and every fucking wanna be "gangsta" rapper, that foloowed the fully FAKE ASS GANGSTAS of NWA, because the rich white suits realized that the fake ass gangstas of NWA's ilk are easier to sell to the 12-18 year old white teen market.

the Music industry did not know what to do with PE. PE and sonic youth, remember that?
The music industry did not know what to do with real "gangsta rappers" like Geto Boys eaither.
By real I mean talking about the reality in life, not talking about how great it is to be a pimp and have fly shit when you are actually a fucking high school drop out with no money living in yr momma's basement and renting bling, cars, and jets, for your videos.

[RanaldoNecro]

Minot Threat and Fugazi might have influential but not in terms of realpolitik.

Bands like SY or Rage made much more of an inroad into people's brains and thoughts than Fugazi or Minor Threat. They might have been purer but, I can't help but think that bands such these ultimatley are rememebered as a 'tempest in a teapot'...

[Rob Instigator]

they chose to stay that ay though, to preserve their self-determination

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by RanaldoNecro

the extreme in music is sometimes necessary to contain and channel the extremes in reality..

Excellent point SuchFriends...I would rather hear gangster rap then get shot without warning while I take photos of daisys in the Ghetto...

and that is exactly why people in the 'hood' listen to this music, because it reflects and contains these experiences, just like ol coal mining music reflects the experience of ol virginia coal miners..

[RanaldoNecro]

and that is exactly why people in the 'hood' listen to this music, because it reflects and contains these experiences, just like ol coal mining music reflects the experience of ol virginia coal miners..

It is not ornamental but an everyday necessity...

[RanaldoNecro]

they chose to stay that ay though, to preserve their self-determination

I guess they (bands of that ilk) weren't that hardcore after all

[demonrail666]

The rap industry is not sustained by people in the hood (who as a market force are pretty negligible.) It's sustained by white, largely middle class males who get off on a certain romanticised idea of ghetto-life. Black kids in Compton may listen to it on the radio, but it's not for them. If anything they're simply buying into somebody else's version of their life.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

they did not suceed in the latter because they were overshadowed by meaningless, self-agtrandizing, gang and prison worship rap a la 2-Pac and Biggie and every fucking wanna be "gangsta" rapper, that foloowed the fully FAKE ASS GANGSTAS of NWA, because the rich white suits realized that the fake ass gangstas of NWA's ilk are easier to sell to the 12-18 year old white teen market.

The music industry may have exploited and mass marketed these groups, but you know damn well that for better or worse the original NWA crowd was all the broke as car stealin, crack smoking, purse snatching mother fuckers from Harris Avenue and Alondra Blvd...

[RanaldoNecro]

I agree that, buying into somebody else's version of their life.
But we never get the whole picture of anything or anyone. Stereotypes are not 100% but generally not that far off either....

I am sure that Bollywood is not 100% accurate description of East Indian life, but it helps my understanding of their culture when I visit an Indian restaurant once every 5 years..

[acousticrock87]

It's the song I hate.

[demonrail666]

Definitely agree regarding certain stereotypes. I actually think gangster rap was more significant politically in the way that it helped provoke a new wave of censorship that was so obviously grounded in a certain race and classism. The political is often less about what you say as the way in which people respond to it. Even if it doesn't intend to, an action that creates a response can highlight aspects of a social system that system might not want highlighted.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Definitely agree regarding certain stereotypes. I actually think gangster rap was more significant politically in the way that it instigated a new wave of censorship that was so obviously grounded in a certain race and classism. The political is often less about what you say as the way in which people to respond to it. Even if it doesn't intend to, an action that creates a response can highlight aspects of a social system that system might not want highlighted.

seen. politics in music is a vibe more then an ideology. who feels it knows it y'all