[floatingslowly]

when the sun goes down
over shanty town
man 'a get gun down
when the sun goes down
over I'yah mon town
man 'a get gun down

o, cowboy bones are gettin' old
when dis rudeboy's days are done
get along, texas boys. get along

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

The situations in the film, on these streets local to me, is the direct result of corruption. It is corruption in the local government, in the courts, in the police departments, in the probation offices, in the school boards, in the city councils, in the mayoral offices, in the school districts, in the zoning committees, in the adviseray boards, in all the local bullshit, fuck as far as I am concerned the city of Los Angeles as corrupt as fucking Zimbabwe, and the result is the buck-wild gorrilla youth of Los Angeles, who mob and kill each other daily. fucking dailly. there aren't enough hail mary's to give proper memorial for the amount of youth ending up in caskets. Its daily, and it hasn't stopped in twenty years, my entire life has been a product of this environment, my entire generation and now the kids we are raising, know this violence and this corruption as a part of daily reality. why do we continue to accept it? Becasue most of the people in suburban Los ANgeles, in the State of California, in the United States as a country, in the world in general, think LA is what they see on TMZ....
LOS ANGELES HAS FAILED ITS YOUTH. THE SCHOOLS, THE COURTS, AND ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE COLLECTIVELY HAVE FAILED THE YOUTH.

I don't live there, so I'm not pretending to know more about this than you. You have a day-to-day view of this mess, so you see a lot more of the gritty reality than I do. But I think it's unfair to put all of the blame on the government. What about the people themselves? Are they not responsible for their own actions? You can say that all these people know is violence, but that's not entirely true. If they have TV's or watch any movies, they have the ability to see, if nothing else, the possiblity of a lack of violence.

Sure, that's all easier said than done of course, but it's still there. They still have the choice not to act that way. Why would it be my responsiblity as a single human being to put an end to it, when it is another single human being that's causing it and not stopping it? I'm just rambling, so I hope this is making sense

And there are other factors too, factors which (and I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying) you seem to support. Drugs & ganster rap that often promote violence play a part as well. While I like a lot of rap myself, I can't say that a kid growing up listening to Wu-Tang wouldn't be influenced for the worse. While I listen to itand just like the way they flow, some kid in a bad neighborhood is thinking "Yeah, that's how I got to be to survive."

Sure, local governments need to do more to provide positive influences, but the people creating the negative influences need to think about what they are doing as well, and take some responsibility.

[gmku]

Anyway, whenever I'm in a big city, I think carefully about the color of shoes I'm wearing in any particular hood. Wouldn't want those gangstas shooting me for my Converse JPs!

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by gmku

I always thought it was "crypts". No?

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

CRIPS (Community Revolution In Progress)

^^^

[gmku]

Hmm, well I'll be fucked.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I blame drugs.

and where do all the drugs come from?

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to wellcharge again.

Originally Posted by afterthefact

I don't live there, so I'm not pretending to know more about this than you. You have a day-to-day view of this mess, so you see a lot more of the gritty reality than I do. But I think it's unfair to put all of the blame on the government. What about the people themselves? Are they not responsible for their own actions? You can say that all these people know is violence, but that's not entirely true. If they have TV's or watch any movies, they have the ability to see, if nothing else, the possiblity of a lack of violence.

Sure, that's all easier said than done of course, but it's still there. They still have the choice not to act that way. Why would it be my responsiblity as a single human being to put an end to it, when it is another single human being that's causing it and not stopping it? I'm just rambling, so I hope this is making sense

And there are other factors too, factors which (and I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying) you seem to support. Drugs & ganster rap that often promote violence play a part as well. While I like a lot of rap myself, I can't say that a kid growing up listening to Wu-Tang wouldn't be influenced for the worse. While I listen to itand just like the way they flow, some kid in a bad neighborhood is thinking "Yeah, that's how I got to be to survive."

Sure, local governments need to do more to provide positive influences, but the people creating the negative influences need to think about what they are doing as well, and take some responsibility.

Everything you mentioned is correct, the problem with gang, street and drug violence in the city of Los Angeles (and 100% of US cities above 250,000 according to US census which report such activities) is that is a complex network of problems, there is no smoking bullet..

but there are disproportionate contributing factors, and the corruption of government is a kingpin issue here. The fucked schools combined with the corrupt and brutal police combined with FBI saboteurs (who flood the streets with all the guns and drugs to begin with!!!) result in a disaster. And further, the blame can rightfully be blamed on the govt because the govt FORCES the kids to go to these fucked up schools, the POLICE do not give you any options they call all the shots, and the FBI sneak all the guns in as the ultimate devil's advocate..

of course the people are responsible for their own actions, but they are not entirely to blame. Further, I am hoping that communities TO WORK ON SELF-RELIANCE and DO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS FOR THEMSELVES..

but first and foremost, WE MUST SOLVE THE OUTSIDE FACTORS, before we can get at the inside. We must end all the corruption, establish schools that work, get rid of the police-state environment of police brutality and neighborhood injunctions, and get the damned rouge Intellegence agents OUT OF LA and all their fucking bullshit guns and drugs!!

then with all that outside bullshit out of the way, the people can again begin to work on themselves. After all, this is what history teaches us. In the 1960s the black and "minority" communities of the US began to work on self-reliance, become deeply self-aware and form true communties, however the system infilitrated like they took down Marcus Garvey and the UNIA before them, and by 1970 all that was left was body bags, prison inmantes, and a bunch of fucking gangsters selling drugs for the FBI/CIA...

fucked up!

good thread. I like all the input, very thought provoking.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

traditionally, crips were more likely to rob and steal, while the bloods were into selling rock.

I'm pretty sure they all sell drugs now though.

You got that a little backwards, the CRIPS were the first to sell rock, but that was not into the 80s when the CIA first dropped crack on Compton (this is a gem of history which came out public during the whole Iran/Contra scandal by some guilt-ridden CIA agents who also felt like bragging) The Bloods originate in the early 70s as a defense krew against expanding CRIP violence. The Bloods were brothers like the Bishops and the Compton Pirus (ironically Piru is a small block in Compton/Watts and now there are Pirus all over the world, some people even mistakenly attacht street lore that it is some African shit, its not, its a block name) who took on the name Bloods as many were Vietnam vets. They did not sell rock, they sold heroin which was the CIA drug of choice because of easy access in Indochina during the War (some say the war was entirely fought over control of heroin), but the CRIPS began to sell the CIA's new drug of choice in the 70s, coca, which apparently in 1981 became crack (even though people had been free-basing cocaine for over a hundred years previously)...

the history of Los Angeles street gangs is really a history of GEOPOLITICS...

Originally Posted by gmku

Hmm, well I'll be fucked.

I suppose so, but it is in fact Crips, though some folks believe it was originally Cribs (as in Baby Cribs for Baby Avenue) but the Panther lore says it was always CRIPS (the acronym) and a good deal of the panters were killed so we might never actually know.

Some newspaper reports used to call them Cripples because they used to carry canes from 1971-1973, and a japanese woman reported being robbed by "three crippled black men" but that is sort of a coincidence, even a joke really.

[Danny Himself]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

the CIA first dropped crack on Compton (this is a gem of history which came out public during the whole Iran/Contra scandal by some guilt-ridden CIA agents who also felt like bragging)

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...-targeted.html

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

but there are disproportionate contributing factors, and the corruption of government is a kingpin issue here. The fucked schools combined with the corrupt and brutal police combined with FBI saboteurs (who flood the streets with all the guns and drugs to begin with!!!) result in a disaster. And further, the blame can rightfully be blamed on the govt because the govt FORCES the kids to go to these fucked up schools, the POLICE do not give you any options they call all the shots, and the FBI sneak all the guns in as the ultimate devil's advocate..

of course the people are responsible for their own actions, but they are not entirely to blame. Further, I am hoping that communities TO WORK ON SELF-RELIANCE and DO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS FOR THEMSELVES..

but first and foremost, WE MUST SOLVE THE OUTSIDE FACTORS, before we can get at the inside. We must end all the corruption, establish schools that work, get rid of the police-state environment of police brutality and neighborhood injunctions, and get the damned rouge Intellegence agents OUT OF LA and all their fucking bullshit guns and drugs!!

Ok, I can definitely see it from this angle. It is true that, especially in these specific areas, public school is the only option most kids have, and they don't even have the option of not going at all. And even if they did have that option, it would mean spending more time on the streets and picking up these bad habits.

And it is true, you aren't going to go up to a gang member and say "hey man, really, what are you doing here?" and turn them around.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I suppose so, but it is in fact Crips, though some folks believe it was originally Cribs (as in Baby Cribs for Baby Avenue) but the Panther lore says it was always CRIPS (the acronym) and a good deal of the panters were killed so we might never actually know.

once the bloods became a rival power, CRIPS stopped using the letter "b" (unless you are using it to refer to a blood as a "slob", and even then it's typically crossed out).

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

You got that a little backwards

I wasn't insinuating that selling rock was an exclusive venture, but my data was given to me by a CRIP, so...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I wasn't insinuating that selling rock was an exclusive venture, but my data was given to me by a CRIP, so...

The part I meant was backwards was the traditional part in relation to rock, because in the formation days of the late 60s and early 70s crack didn't exist. aside from that techinical inaccuracy your version is the gospel truth, the proto-crips loved to pull jack moves, and all the sets which united and became the bloods (later Brotherly Love Overcomes Oppressive Domination) were into dealing. this was a panther legacy, as initially the Panthers were devoutly and of course ironically ANTI-DRUG, ANTI-DRUG DEALING

traditionally the crips were into stealing and robbing since they were just a bunch of loose sets affiliated with the panthers, from 65-70. the sets who became the bloods were traditionally drug dealing, as you said, but it was not rock, it was heroin. The crips introduced crack into the game by 1981, cuz they had all the coke in the 70s and the CIA inspired them to cut and serve their blow out on the streets in a new, cheaper way. the bloods STILL fuck with heroin, and bunch are surprisingly more strung out than kurt cobain..

[demonrail666]

Is this Bloods-CRIPS rivalry pretty contained within themselves? Are there also major rivalries between them and certain Latino gangs, for example, or do the Latino gangs tend to stick within themselves? (I say this knowing that there are Latinos in both the Blood and the CRIPS, I'm thinking more about the actual Latino gangs though that, I think, Floating mentioned)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Is this Bloods-CRIPS rivalry pretty contained within themselves? Are there also major rivalries between them and certain Latino gangs, for example, or do the Latino gangs tend to stick within themselves? (I say this knowing that there are Latinos in both the Blood and the CRIPS, I'm thinking more about the actual Latino gangs though that, I think, Floating mentioned)

yes, there is hispanic-black gang rivalry, usually out of a mix of geography and racism.

but this should not imply some kind of unity amongst the hispanic "southsiders"

these are just and even more likely to shoot and kill another southside set than a black set. There is far more inter-southside beef and drama and politics then there is interracial. Every 13 set is against another, where as amongst black gangs, CRIPS tend to be cool with other CRIP sets, and you don't see this necessarily in hispanic gangs. With the Southsiders, each set is sort of on their own, and the 13 just mediates and keeps negotiations and communication open.

[Lurker]

This goes against your explanation of the word 'Crip'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips

And about the LA police coining the word 'gang', well here's what the OED has to say on that:

"Any band or company of persons who go about together or act in concert (chiefly in a bad or depreciatory sense, or associated with criminal societies). transf. a social set. colloq.

1632 in Crt. & Times Chas. I (1848) II. 197 Nutt the pirate..with all his gang of varlets. 1677 R. CARY Palæol. Chron. II. I. xiii. 126, I have a question to move on the behalf of the Gang of Chronographers. 1701 Lond. Gaz. No. 3755/8 Supposed to be concerned with a Gang of House-breakers. 1782 WOLCOT (P. Pindar) Odes to R.A.'s xi. Wks. 1812 I. 38 And as a gang of thieves a bustle make With greater ease, your purse to take. 1849 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. iv. I. 505 Disgusted his friends by joining what was then generally considered as a gang of crazy heretics. 1883 Law Times LXXV. 130/2 The breaking up of gangs of criminals through the operation of long terms of penal servitude. 1945 A. KOBER Parm Me 28 The bunch is waiting at my house. I thought I'd call fa you and take you over, so that we'd meet the gang. 1955 G. FREEMAN Liberty Man I. i. 15 All the gang would be there, and she'd be ever so proud of him."


Note the year 1632.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Lurker

This goes against your explanation of the word 'Crip'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips

And about the LA police coining the word 'gang', well here's what the OED has to say on that:

"Any band or company of persons who go about together or act in concert (chiefly in a bad or depreciatory sense, or associated with criminal societies). transf. a social set. colloq.

1632 in Crt. & Times Chas. I (1848) II. 197 Nutt the pirate..with all his gang of varlets. 1677 R. CARY Palæol. Chron. II. I. xiii. 126, I have a question to move on the behalf of the Gang of Chronographers. 1701 Lond. Gaz. No. 3755/8 Supposed to be concerned with a Gang of House-breakers. 1782 WOLCOT (P. Pindar) Odes to R.A.'s xi. Wks. 1812 I. 38 And as a gang of thieves a bustle make With greater ease, your purse to take. 1849 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. iv. I. 505 Disgusted his friends by joining what was then generally considered as a gang of crazy heretics. 1883 Law Times LXXV. 130/2 The breaking up of gangs of criminals through the operation of long terms of penal servitude. 1945 A. KOBER Parm Me 28 The bunch is waiting at my house. I thought I'd call fa you and take you over, so that we'd meet the gang. 1955 G. FREEMAN Liberty Man I. i. 15 All the gang would be there, and she'd be ever so proud of him."


Note the year 1632.

I don't give a fuck what Wikipedia said. and in regards to your etymology lesson, I meant in regards to street gangs, not the english word itself. good try though, you almost moted me

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I don't give a fuck what Wikipedia said. and in regards to your etymology lesson, I meant in regards to street gangs, not the english word itself. good try though, you almost moted me

It's not what wikipedia says it's what one of the founding members says.

So you're saying they coined the word 'gang' to mean 'street gang'? Do you realise how stupid you sound? How many other sorts of gangs are there that don't operate on the street? As far as I can see there is no difference in meaning.

[demonrail666]

I'm not saying a founder member's account shouldn't be taken seriously, but there's a strong chance that Stanley Williams' attempt to distance the CRIPS from the Panthers has more to do with some kind of personal grievance he had with the Panthers than anything related directly to the facts. I mean if I wanna know what really went on in Guns n Roses, the last person I'm gonna ask is AXL Rose.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I don't give a fuck what Wikipedia said.

actually, the wiki is right. Tookie and Washington started the gang to fight other gangs.

it was never really an arm of the black panther party, so much as inspired by it.

and you can't blame everything on the CIA, man. I'm not saying there weren't black-op flights from the golden triangle that didn't make it into the hood, but you had to have someone to say "yes" to selling, and another to say "yes" to buying.

[demonrail666]

It was all so much more straight forward in The Warriors.

[floatingslowly]

well, the problem is, whoever started it all and why doesn't matter so much as what it's turned into. it spread like a cancer and now it's everywhere.

it's would be near impossible to completely define "crips" and "bloods" due to the thousands of differing mythologies.