[Glice]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

If you'd burn me the smoke coming from my anus would still have enough gay bacteria to contaminate you.

Darling, I don't do burnings myself.

Also, it's interesting that I suddenly quite fancy Ginger Spice after years of finding her a bit trouty. 'Maturity' is an odd thing, innit?

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Glice

No, it really doesn't, you're right. Um... Also Sprach Zarathustra or an Alpine Symphony are probably his most popular pieces (I'd be surprised if you didn't go, "Oh, that's by him" when you heard them) but I'd say Electra if you can get it and Ein Heldenleben... oh, God, Ein Heldenleben, get that, it's fucking incredible.

Edit: he has produced a lot of cack mind you.

Why didn't you recommend Salome, eh? Is it perhaps because you're a TOTAL COCK? Eh?

[atsonicpark]

ginger spice apparently went on a date with one of the autechre dudes.

Odd.

I'd shit in her vag.

[atsonicpark]

 

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Glice

Darling, I don't do burnings myself.

Also, it's interesting that I suddenly quite fancy Ginger Spice after years of finding her a bit trouty. 'Maturity' is an odd thing, innit?

Well, you don't write operas about burnings Italian fags, and don't do any burnings either. Perhaps you should stick to auditioning to become a replacement for Ian Donaldson in Screwdriver, then.

[Glice]

They'll never replace him. What are the odds of finding just one piss-ugly tuneless racist cunt with concrete eardrums, let alone two?

[Genteel Death]

The possibilities are infinite.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Some racists make good music. It's a basic fact of life I'm afraid.

Also, I really like it when people make snap judgements based on a few paragraphs on a wikipedia article. Good work, Ned.

but roy, i heard about this in a philosophy of music class i took in grad school. you know, that place you want to go to.

are you trying to discredit the fact that strauss was a nazi collaborator?

i knew it, roy-- you're a hitler apologist.

HITLER APOLOGIST

next thing you're going to be recommending wagner

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but roy, i heard about this in a philosophy of music class i took in grad school. you know, that place you want to go to.

are you trying to discredit the fact that strauss was a nazi collaborator?

i knew it, roy-- you're a hitler apologist.

HITLER APOLOGIST

next thing you're going to be recommending wagner

I lolled twice.

I wouldn't 'discredit' Strauss' so-called Nazi collaboration - there's no point, it's well known. As well as his Jewish family. And his support of Jewish musicians. And his love of Jewish composers. None of which I particularly care about, none of which matters. Goebbels never produced anything, that I'm aware of, that's anywhere near as good as Salome. Goering didn't produce anything as astounding as the overture to Tristan and Isolde.

I'm currently in 'grad' school. And so far I haven't had a hissy fit and abandoned it to forever bitterly bemoan academics.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

I lolled twice.

I wouldn't 'discredit' Strauss' so-called Nazi collaboration - there's no point, it's well known. As well as his Jewish family. And his support of Jewish musicians. And his love of Jewish composers. None of which I particularly care about, none of which matters. Goebbels never produced anything, that I'm aware of, that's anywhere near as good as Salome. Goering didn't produce anything as astounding as the overture to Tristan and Isolde.

I'm currently in 'grad' school. And so far I haven't had a hissy fit and abandoned it to forever bitterly bemoan academics.

o, wikipedia quoting you, well done there, well done.

but then there's your love of pop and your favorite girl band, PRUSSIAN BLUE. oh you know you love them. fess up.... yeah!

anyway, of course monsters can make good art (prussian blue is shit though, in spite of what you say)-- i was just giving you crap, you know, just for sport. i actually like you-- in spite of your horrible racist tendencies, your BNP membership and those nazi tattoos on your nipples, i think you're alright.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'm currently in 'grad' school. And so far I haven't had a hissy fit and abandoned it to forever bitterly bemoan academics.

Do academics normally meet on rock messageboards, or is there a particular corner of the internet where they can bicker unperturbed by all these unwashed rockers?

[Glice]

Academics are all wankers; messageboard denizens are all wankers. It's all about subtle shades of a shitty brown.

Prussian Blue are far from my favourite band. I'm not saying I dislike them - they have a certain charm entirely lacking from the majority of explicitly racist music - but I wouldn't ever condescend to defending them. And I'm definitely coming down on the side of scepticism with Strauss' 'Nazi sympathies'. Heidegger rescinded on his support for the Nazis, but I don't think that makes his ideological sanctification of Nazi idea(l)s (albeit inadvertant) any less repulsive. I don't hear anything explicitly Nazi in Strauss' music (which isn't as true of Wagner) so I'm happy carrying on listening.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Academics are all wankers; messageboard denizens are all wankers. It's all about subtle shades of a shitty brown.

good point, but dammit, i thought you were going to tell him that you are a cyberpunk academic

Originally Posted by Glice

Prussian Blue are far from my favourite band. I'm not saying I dislike them - they have a certain charm entirely lacking from the majority of explicitly racist music - but I wouldn't ever condescend to defending them. And I'm definitely coming down on the side of scepticism with Strauss' 'Nazi sympathies'. Heidegger rescinded on his support for the Nazis, but I don't think that makes his ideological sanctification of Nazi idea(l)s (albeit inadvertant) any less repulsive. I don't hear anything explicitly Nazi in Strauss' music (which isn't as true of Wagner) so I'm happy carrying on listening.

 

[Glice]

Hehe. I can't say too much on that subject at the moment, but you're potentially not a million miles off...

[fugazifan]

Glice: is there anything extremely antisemitic in wagners music? it seems that all of the proof that he supported foresaw nazi ideas seem overtly anachronistic. like parsifal being the one man that saves humanity ot whatnot as a parralel to hitler seems just speculation and could be easily interepreted to many different direction. i think although he was antisemitic, had the holocaust not happened people would have noticed a lot less of it in his music.
and from what i understand strauss was just an oportunist and did not acutlaly agree with the nazi ideals.
orff was also a member of the nazi party, no?
they play him and strauss in israel all the time, but never wagner....

[Glice]

Not being a full scholar of Wagner (mercifully) I understand there are money-grabbing Jew-type characters in the Ring. But no worse than Shakespeare.

I think the Israel opposition is largely because Hitler used Wagner's music in official Nazi business - the name of Wagner thereby forever associated with the violent oppressor in the minds of the few remaining Holocaust survivors. Strauss and Orff, less so.

The Wagner thing isn't actually written anywhere though, is it? I seem to remember that coming up when Baranboim first did the Tristan prelude as an encore in Israel.

I don't know any of this for sure though, I'd ask one of your lecturers before asking strangers on the internet.

[!@#$%!]

ah, sweet instant knowlege-- better than nescafe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Judenthum_in_der_Musik

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Glice

Darling, I don't do burnings myself.

Also, it's interesting that I suddenly quite fancy Ginger Spice after years of finding her a bit trouty. 'Maturity' is an odd thing, innit?

maturity makes one appreciate bodacious ladies one wopuld not have even looked at twice back in the flower of youth

[Rob Instigator]

remember the money grabbing jews in the bible when jesus went in and whupped ass in the temple, driving out the money changers? jesus the jew beatin up on crooked jews. the bible is crazy.

just an aside.



I personally enjoy Wagner's opera much more than most Strauss music. I don;t understand the libretto but the music and the colors and the tones, when done right, are amazing.

[fugazifan]

glice- i have talked about it. and him, a lot. i am taking a course on the ring cycle this semester so we'll see how it goes. i was more making conversation and seeing what you feel. i think that there might be a different perspective on the wagner situation if you are not studying him at the hebrew university.

!@#$%$- i am aware of that essay, and that he was antisemitic, but the question is if his operas had elements that could be seen as influential to the nazis in a non anachronistic way.
i mean he might have disliked the jews, but i dont think that he would have been a nazi, and even if he would have been, he wasnt, so why accuse him of something that he never had a chance to do?
that might have been a bit of a babble, but its late and i have had a few beers.
and even if he did hate the jews, lets see any of them (us) compose anything that can reach a tenth of the leibestod, then we shall discuss whether he should be played or not....