[FreshChops]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

TO her as some think. They are praying that she will pray for them because there is a strong belief that a prayer from a saint your behalf will be listened to even more. Prayer in numbers.

that's all well and dandy, except for the fact that she's a plastic doll

[EDIT: .... that's made in China]

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by FreshChops

that's all well and dandy, except for the fact that she's a plastic doll

[EDIT: .... that's made in China]

mine is a steel medallion made in italy so there

[Rob Instigator]

what if, like most of Jesus' contacts in the Bible, Mary was a poor, outcast, marginal , "working girl" a la mary magdalene, and they called her "the Virgin" because her poonanny was just exquisitely tight?


ohhhh the blasphemesss.....

[Rob Instigator]

Jesus was a non-corporeal entity!

ha


for real though, maybe it was a C-section?

[ann ashtray]

I don't believe in a God that speaks in metaphors. I dont believe in a God that speaks at all. I don;t believe in a god that is aware of my individual existence. I don't believe in a god that is aware of anyone's individual existence. I don't believe in a god that wishes to guide or help anyone through anything.

If, if, if there is an afterlife, if there is a god...the absolute only thing that makes sense to my (very feeble/weak/fucked...)mind is a collective conciousness. Something we all become a part of after we become plant + animal food. Something that isn't even worth the time of day to think about because it's something that goes far beyond anyone's understanding of absolutely anything. And I'm not even sayin' I believe that....

I'm a creature of procreaction. I enjoy enjaculating any chance I get...wether alone or w/ someone else. I'm a creature of excess...I enjoy booze and booty and then being left alone.

Heaven, if there is a such thing, to me is looking at my previously deceased friends by my side, and saying "holy shit I'm not too drunk to realize i just witnessed Ron Asheton ask to bum a smoke from Jimi". < that was a joke, me being an idiot. I don't believe that.

I'm a total. fuckin. moron.

I know I will become grass fertilizer. The maggots will love me and need me and lust after my decaying body more than anyone did in this waking/breathin' life.

If I gotta sould, I hope to meet it one day...but I doubt I will.

They say "gotd was just ready to take him home", god's idea of taking my friend was not by throwing him outta car window. He wasn't done. I hope to see 'em again one day, to give em a big hug an soak his shirt in tears and tell em I missed em, but shit...in my mind...doesnt work like that.

If i'm lucky, well become a collective concious...but...we won't be aware of it.

[SONIC GAIL]

Don't let a loved ones death be a reason to not believe. My momma was taken too earlly. Deathwas her release and caused me to have the convictions I do now. I think heaven is a combined conciousness. Its not about the individual. A new existance. I do think we will meet there. Ill be waiting to see u

[ann ashtray]

It sounds nice.

I'm just not so sure.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

I don't believe in a God that speaks in metaphors. I dont believe in a God that speaks at all. I don;t believe in a god that is aware of my individual existence. I don't believe in a god that is aware of anyone's individual existence. I don't believe in a god that wishes to guide or help anyone through anything.

If, if, if there is an afterlife, if there is a god...the absolute only thing that makes sense to my (very feeble/weak/fucked...)mind is a collective conciousness. Something we all become a part of after we become plant + animal food. Something that isn't even worth the time of day to think about because it's something that goes far beyond anyone's understanding of absolutely anything. And I'm not even sayin' I believe that....

I'm a creature of procreaction. I enjoy enjaculating any chance I get...wether alone or w/ someone else. I'm a creature of excess...I enjoy booze and booty and then being left alone.

Heaven, if there is a such thing, to me is looking at my previously deceased friends by my side, and saying "holy shit I'm not too drunk to realize i just witnessed Ron Asheton ask to bum a smoke from Jimi". < that was a joke, me being an idiot. I don't believe that.

I'm a total. fuckin. moron.

I know I will become grass fertilizer. The maggots will love me and need me and lust after my decaying body more than anyone did in this waking/breathin' life.

If I gotta sould, I hope to meet it one day...but I doubt I will.

They say "gotd was just ready to take him home", god's idea of taking my friend was not by throwing him outta car window. He wasn't done. I hope to see 'em again one day, to give em a big hug an soak his shirt in tears and tell em I missed em, but shit...in my mind...doesnt work like that.

If i'm lucky, well become a collective concious...but...we won't be aware of it.

Sway, why do you not turn your post into a musical?

[ann ashtray]

is that a compliment? an insult? a metaphor?

lawwwwwdy.

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by amerikangod

What I wanna know is, if Mary was an actual virgin, and her hymen was intact.... does that mean Jesus popped his own mother's cherry on his way out?

doood.....that's the most awesomly disgusting thing anyone can say about Jesus and his mum.

[SONIC GAIL]

Faith is noteasily found. Its a long road to travel

[TheFoxBen]

No doubt the girl existed but I'm not a very religious person so I think she might have been just some random girl whose life has been a bit embellished by some writers.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

is that a compliment? an insult? a metaphor?

lawwwwwdy.

Advice.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Advice.

W/ an exception of my "i wanna be ron asheton" bluesy bullshit"...All my music is influenced by such frustrations.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

My Dad was raised Catholic, my Mom Lutheran. I wasn't really raised as any specific denomination.

I sort of see her as a symbol of fragility, bravery, and motherhood.

I see Joseph as important too. He's a symbol of faith and fatherhood. He trusted that she was a virgin. Dude could have had her stoned if he wanted.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by gualbert

A person worth of very little interest.
Simply because the gospels doesn't report much of what she did, and nothing of what she said.

Thus she became a subject for myths, fantasies, theories etc.
Why no one gives a damn about Joseph, I have no ideas.

but that is not true at ALL! There are dozens of gospel narratives (in the various Synaxariums, Missal prayer books, catechism texts, law books, and also the so-called lost and/or apocryphal gospels) that only the Protestant tradition hold as non-canonical, where as the Orthodox and Catholics hold them to be as divine as the so-called "Bible" The authority of the Canon is a relative term, hence the purpose of this thread, to have a nice, open discussion.

I think the most common thing I see on these kinds of threads is people (even who don't believe in it) turning to the Bible for the answer, but that is not necessarily appropriate, in fact is just baggage from the Protestant movement which was not religious at all but rather economical (after all, who wanted to pay taxes to the Church anyways ) Christianity is not entirely limited by the Bible, it is a rich legacy of culture and tradition found in oral histories, paintings, architecture, hymn/song, and many other Church books and writings that are "extra-biblical" and yet by no means unauthoritative. There are authentic Church letters and Writings that are in fact older than any New Testament copies..

Further, in the New Testament itself both Jesus and the Apostles specifically mention for folks not only to follow the "bible" but to adhere to the traditions and teachings which are received from the past.

And in Catholic Saint Joseph is a patron saint of many churches, hospitals, orphanages etc etc

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

When I was 20 I would have said she was a symbol of rape. Raped by god, and then man raped as a result (if you believe the "story").

When I was 24 I would have stated that I didn't care.

Now, I just think she might have been a woman that actually existed (maybe), but has this misfortune of being carved in history by fictitious bullshit. But really...I still don;t care that much.

You don't get pregnant w/out the aid of dick. I doubt god has a dick. Does god need a dick? And even if he did, he's god...why would he wanna fuck anyone on this planet? If he did want to, I'm sure he'd already fucked Eve...I mean, IF YA REALLY BELIEVE THIS SHIT....Eve had to be to most beautiful woman ever...'cause she was the first. Designed soley by god from the rib of Adam and not hand-me-down genetics.

People look retarded.

I completely knew someone would post this, I was even meditating about it during the Mass earlier today.

True, in some aspects, the Virgin Mary is indeed a symbol of male domination/oppression over women, culminating in the most offensive act of this male dominance, rape. Further the Virgin's submission to the act and the subsequent child can be interpreted by some as being symbolic of male dominance over women in culture, politics, sexuality etc etc In respects this may be true, but that is the result of certain groups who have used and exploited the imagery and symbolism of the Virgin Mary to use it towards these ends. The symbol itself is not necessarily intertwined with this concept. After all, who said the Bald Eagle has to be the symbol of American dominance over the world? And yet that is what America has used it for, to paste it across the world as an image and tangible symbol of its oppressive hold over the world...
And by the way, yes, in the Church we have many hymns which directly speak of the significance of the Virgin having been the most beautiful and attractive of women (spiritually of course ) to have attracted the attention of God.

Originally Posted by amerikangod

The holy grail of MILFs.

how expectedly freudian of you, but yes, I would very much agree that men orient themselves around the Virgin in the same way men orient themselves around fertility goddesses of the past..

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Mary is the Catholic Church's answer to the myriad earth mother/mother worship cults that have existed throughout human time.
It is only right to worship the female, for the female brings new life. the male does not. However, in patriarchal society and in severely patriarchal organized judeo/christian religion, where women are NOT allowed to be priests/talk to "god", but are also completely subjugated as secondary citizens, as crap leftover after the creation of MAN, as the tempters of MAN who essentially took humanity away from the grace of god in the garden of eden, Mary is the bone

Just as the early church (the seat of all that is wrong with christianity) co-opted the Mithras holiday/winter solstice to use as their messiah's "birthday", they co-opted the Goddess/Earth Mother by introducing a supposedly ALSO virgin born woman, who gave a virgin birth to the son of god. Neat trick. It has worked very well and helped kill all pagan competition.

In many countries worship of the Goddess/Mary continues with more furor than worshuip of god/Jeebus. Mexico being one example.

The Bible tells of a woman who was a virgin and gave birth. it tells nothing of her being born froma virgin herself, nor does it say that Joseph, her HUSBAND, did not fuck her brains out soon after, and had more children.

many aprocryphal writings talk of jesus' brothers and sisters. mary got that pussy waxed.

I see you paid attention well at catechism, you know your shit, and thats saying something, you know I teach that shit?

In the Church we do not necessarily believe that Mary is the olden time fertility goddesses, but we do acknowledge that being a women, having the creative forces in harmony, that God could have only used a woman to create God incarnate, for that is precisely the mechanism in which God(s) always did such.

The Virgin Mary in early Church symbolism was Universally the Ark of the Covenant, Our Lady Sion, who held the Tablets of Stone and was the Dwelling Place of the God-head, just as the Word of God (Jesus Christ) came incarnate of the egg in the two ovaries (tablets of stone inscribed with the DNA of God/Jesus) birthed the Savior in the Womb, which is the Ark itself. See it is a bit more theologically complicated then simply fertility goddesses, who are the source of creativity, in this instance, she is not the source of any or every or all creativity, rather ALL women are such in God(s) mechanisms, but the Virgin represents a specific junction, a time and place where the Divine interacted with the Human.

You are deeper than the waves at redondo beach my brotha, I always enjoy your contributions..

Interesting enough, to flip on its head the theme of male oppression expressed above, what about the very fact that the images and veneration and prayers and hymns to and in honor of the Virgin exist? Does not that by its very nature EMPOWER women? It gives them a symbol to identify with and further cements their place in the community and the institution. My priest flipped it on me like that one day when we were talking about women being oppressed by Ethiopian Church culture and he laughed at me and said, "Who do you think lights all those candles early in the morning?" Just because the women are priests standing up wearing costumes, does not mean they are not playing integral and critical roles in the Church, albeit a bit more behind the scenes. We all play our parts in the world, even if they seem small in comparison to others. Just because the President has a better job than me, does not inherently make him better in the society then me, in fact if anything, being the Priest can backfire, the Priest gets all the static whether he did anything or not, where as the quiet women cooking, tending to the children and maintaining all the religious/cultural festivals (in my Church the women organize and orchestrate EVERY feast, celebration, baptismal luncheons, funerary wakes, Saint's days etc etc) rarely get static for anything, after all, it isn't polite to back-talk your mothers

good thread y'all, much thanks for taking it rather seriously

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

I don't believe in a God that speaks in metaphors. I dont believe in a God that speaks at all. I don;t believe in a god that is aware of my individual existence. I don't believe in a god that is aware of anyone's individual existence. I don't believe in a god that wishes to guide or help anyone through anything.

If, if, if there is an afterlife, if there is a god...the absolute only thing that makes sense to my (very feeble/weak/fucked...)mind is a collective conciousness. Something we all become a part of after we become plant + animal food. Something that isn't even worth the time of day to think about because it's something that goes far beyond anyone's understanding of absolutely anything. And I'm not even sayin' I believe that....

I'm a creature of procreaction. I enjoy enjaculating any chance I get...wether alone or w/ someone else. I'm a creature of excess...I enjoy booze and booty and then being left alone.

Heaven, if there is a such thing, to me is looking at my previously deceased friends by my side, and saying "holy shit I'm not too drunk to realize i just witnessed Ron Asheton ask to bum a smoke from Jimi". < that was a joke, me being an idiot. I don't believe that.

I'm a total. fuckin. moron.

I know I will become grass fertilizer. The maggots will love me and need me and lust after my decaying body more than anyone did in this waking/breathin' life.

If I gotta sould, I hope to meet it one day...but I doubt I will.

They say "gotd was just ready to take him home", god's idea of taking my friend was not by throwing him outta car window. He wasn't done. I hope to see 'em again one day, to give em a big hug an soak his shirt in tears and tell em I missed em, but shit...in my mind...doesnt work like that.

If i'm lucky, well become a collective concious...but...we won't be aware of it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ann ashtray again.

Originally Posted by TheFoxBen

No doubt the girl existed but I'm not a very religious person so I think she might have been just some random girl whose life has been a bit embellished by some writers.

Very Very Very true. I think it is the way we have embellished her that is so revealing of her significance and impact on the world.

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

My Dad was raised Catholic, my Mom Lutheran. I wasn't really raised as any specific denomination.

I sort of see her as a symbol of fragility, bravery, and motherhood.

I see Joseph as important too. He's a symbol of faith and fatherhood. He trusted that she was a virgin. Dude could have had her stoned if he wanted.

brother, that was simply beautiful words. much thanks and love.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Jesus was a non-corporeal entity!

ha


for real though, maybe it was a C-section?

well i asked a priest once... no good.

but apparently he said jesus was conceived without sex (penetration) it had nothing to do with not popping on the way out.

poor woman, maybe she got to experience it later?

[knox]

you know virgin in the sense of not experiencing sex, not in the sense of keeping your hymen (which many people do by the way) or pledging to marry a virgin and getting it up the ass.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymen

"in rare cases there are mothers with an intact hymen"

And also, what knox said. Many virgins do not have intact hymens.