[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Derek

1. What is your stance on vestigial organs? Many scientists claim that through evolution some organs have lost their purpose but a lot of fundamentalists would say these organs still have uses and thus are not vestigial (such as someone without tonsils is 4 times more likely to contract disease even though doctors deem it perfectly safe to remove them).

2. Through quantum physics, there's been massive support that particles can form out of nothing, somewhat showing that the universe could be uncaused. What do you think about this?

3. Do you believe that a higher entity indeed created us entirely or rather that an entity planted the seeds for our growth and we simply evolved over time? Or is it that your religion is simply a spiritual quest and does not conform to the views of a Christian God?

4. God is often depicted in a human form, explained by people's needs to make God relatable to them. Do you think this is right or is the idea of 'god' simply a force outwith our comprehension?


Coming from a non-religious background, I'm interested in gaining some perspective that's not simply a teacher talking as you could understand. This thread isn't to denounce either religion or science, but rather to observe each other's views, remember.

1) How does evidence of evolutionary change in the human body somehow disprove the concepts of spirituality and the existence or providence of a Deity? That is like saying, "Ah Ha! There is no such thing as music, the sound simply comes from vibrating strings, there is no art at all!"

2) You are wrong, energy can be neither created or destroyed, and all matter in the multiverse is energy (which was proved by the atom bomb), therefore nothing can be formed of nothing, all of the vibrating strings are something. All that exists always has existed, and more than likely always will exist. In Christian doxology the saying affirmation of the Laws of Conservation of Energy are chanted, "as it was, is and shall be unto the Ages of all Ages."

3) Your theology is naive. Get more specific, you exist in a multi-layered, multi-dimensional world. Forces beyond comprehension determine every single aspect of our existence, and we can only cooperate within their parameters. God(s) is like gravity, it fundamentally determines EVERY possible outcome of our existence, and yet entirely gives us freewill to operate within God(s) parameters, just as we operate fluidly in a world of fundamental cosmological forces beyond our sensory perception, none the less crucially crucial. Physics class was more enlightening to me than an acid trip..

4) What you are talking about is anthropomorphism, and right or wrong it is an understandable theology. The center of religious understanding like Hinduism or Christianity is that Deities beyond the scale of our Multiverse, can operate within it, even in a physical, human form. While Thomas Jefferson may have been uncomfortable with the concept of a personal, human God(s) and preferred a kind of indifferent Deism, I do understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. The Incarnation has been a cornerstone of theological and spiritual discussion for thousands of years. It is literally impossible to conceive of Infinity taking on the limits of the Finite, of the Divine manifesting itself in Flesh, but this is the Mystery of God(s). The real issue is simple as basic science, if you do not understand something at the moment due the circumstances of limited perspective, it does not necessarily negate the possibilities. Just because we can not fully understand the Infinite, should not limit the Infinite, and if the the Infinite can indeed do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, than easily the Infinite can also readily become Finite.. But again, this has been a quarrel for a long long time.

Originally Posted by knox

many gods are evil and enjoy hatred more

Thats not really a fair assessment, is the weather or the solar flares honestly capricious or intentionally malicious? Is natural selection intentionally out to get everything? Doubtful, more than likely its the indifference of the roll of the dice, and we should not misinterpret divine as being good or evil, for those distinctions are made from our own, hopelessly limited perspectives. Human beings are such control freaks, that we even need to control God by somehow learning all of how He ticks and to follow all of His rules, like you would to manipulate any other human relationship, whereas is is all rather amusing to any God(s), because how could the finite control the infinite?

[SpaceCadetHayden]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

1) How does evidence of evolutionary change in the human body somehow disprove the concepts of spirituality and the existence or providence of a Deity? That is like saying, "Ah Ha! There is no such thing as music, the sound simply comes from vibrating strings, there is no art at all!"

2) You are wrong, energy can be neither created or destroyed, and all matter in the multiverse is energy, therefore nothing can be formed of nothing, all of the vibrating strings are something. All that exists always has existed, and more than likely always will exist. In Christian doxology the saying affirmation of the Laws of Conservation of Energy are chanted, "as it was, is and shall be unto the Ages of all Ages."

3) Your theology is naive. Get more specific, you exist in a multi-layered, multi-dimensional world. Forces beyond comprehension determine every single aspect of our existence, and we can only cooperate within their parameters. God(s) is like gravity, it fundamentally determines EVERY possible outcome of our existence, and yet entirely gives us freewill to operate within God(s) parameters, just as we operate fluidly in a world of fundamental cosmological forces beyond our sensory perception, none the less crucially crucial. Physics class was more enlightening to me than an acid trip..

4) What you are talking about is anthropomorphism, and right or wrong it is an understandable theology. The center of religious understanding like Hinduism or Christianity is that Deities beyond the scale of our Multiverse, can operate within it, even in a physical, human form. While Thomas Jefferson may have been uncomfortable with the concept of a personal, human God(s) and preferred a kind of indifferent Deism, I do understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. The Incarnation has been a cornerstone of theological and spiritual discussion for thousands of years. It is literally impossible to conceive of Infinity taking on the limits of the Finite, of the Divine manifesting itself in Flesh, but this is the Mystery of God(s). The real issue is simple as basic science, if you do not understand something at the moment due the circumstances of limited perspective, it does not necessarily negate the possibilities. Just because we can not fully understand the Infinite, should not limit the Infinite, and if the the Infinite can indeed do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, than easily the Infinite can also readily become Finite.. But again, this has been a quarrel for a long long time.


Thats not really a fair assessment, is the weather or the solar flares honestly capricious or intentionally malicious? Is natural selection intentionally out to get everything? Doubtful, more than likely its the indifference of the roll of the dice, and we should not misinterpret divine as being good or evil, for those distinctions are made from our own, hopelessly limited perspectives. Human beings are such control freaks, that we even need to control God by somehow learning all of how He ticks and to follow all of His rules, like you would to manipulate any other human relationship, whereas is is all rather amusing to any God(s), because how could the finite control the infinite?

Love this post.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

God is gay.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

1) How does evidence of evolutionary change in the human body somehow disprove the concepts of spirituality and the existence or providence of a Deity? That is like saying, "Ah Ha! There is no such thing as music, the sound simply comes from vibrating strings, there is no art at all!"

It disproves the views of most organized religion. And greatly questions if there is anything "powerful" in the universe, like a God/Deity. Because if there was such a deity why create imperfect beings that needed to evolve? That makes no logical sense when said Deity could have started with something better.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

2) You are wrong, energy can be neither created or destroyed

This is only in an isolated system. Energy can indeed die.

And on a vaguely related note: Antimatter Trapped by CERN Scientists

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

It is literally impossible to conceive of Infinity taking on the limits of the Finite, of the Divine manifesting itself in Flesh, but this is the Mystery of God(s).

So you understand that Jesus wasn't actually real and all organized religion is bullshit?? Is that what you are saying?

[!@#$%!]

i haven't read teh thread, i just wanted to express my disappointment of how in (at least) american english, "christian" has come to mean anti-intellectual anti-science bible thumper inbred yahoo fanatic dipshit.

i grew up as a christian of the catholic variety, and there was no congenital imbecility implied in said word. the jesuits were actually pretty fucking smart, and theology was advanced by scholars, not televangelists.

[SpaceCadetHayden]

Originally Posted by hevusa

It disproves the views of most organized religion. And greatly questions if there is anything "powerful" in the universe, like a God/Deity. Because if there was such a deity why create imperfect beings that needed to evolve. That makes no logical sense.



This is only in an isolated system. Energy can indeed die.

And on a vaguely related note: Antimatter Trapped by CERN Scientists




So you understand that Jesus wasn't actually real and all organized religion is bullshit because the possibilities are infinite? Is that what you are saying?

You are the only thing in this world that makes me question the existence of a higher power. I hope your heart explodes.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadetHayden

You are the only thing in this world that makes me question the existence of a higher power.

Strange and dangerous way to think/live...
MOST things in this world make me question the existence of a higher power.

[Murmer99]

ohhh something about a vision in a park
of jesus holding hands with an angel named Lark Mcgee

[pbradley]

Hey, Suchfriends, would you perchance have a reply to Albert Camus' criticism of philosophical suicide? I have a hard time pinning down whether your theism is fideistic or idealist. Anyone, both are criticized and I'm interested in what you think.

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Strange and dangerous way to think/live...
MOST things in this world make me question the existence of a higher power.

That makes no sense...you're basically saying you can explain everything that has ever happened.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

That makes no sense...you're basically saying you can explain everything that has ever happened.

Why would questioning the existence of a higher power make you think I could "explain everything that has ever happened"?

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

"christian" has come to mean anti-intellectual anti-science

In general this is true about Christians. Most "believers" are dipshit stupid because they have never had to question a damn thing. And when they do they just discredit anything that doesn't fit into their lie about God. Which leads to MORE dipshit stupid shit like people wanting abortion and gay marriage illegal, women's equality oppressed, the prohibition of marijuana (even though believers think God created it), and stupid liquor laws that don't make sense. And that is just the tip of the iceberg...

[Glice]

The American right does not represent Christianity. At all.

Stupid people are stupid. 'Stupid Christian' is a sub-category of 'stupid people in general', just as 'stupid atheist' (you) is.

[Derek]

Is there anyway I can delete this thread so hevusa can't argue anymore?

[tcpotbntmy]

Originally Posted by Glice

The American right does not represent Christianity. At all.

Stupid people are stupid. 'Stupid Christian' is a sub-category of 'stupid people in general', just as 'stupid atheist' (you) is.

Originally Posted by Derek

Is there anyway I can delete this thread so hevusa can't argue anymore?

Fortunately since Chabib doesn't give a shit about people on this forum, no.

This thread is gold, no matter what - thank you for creating it.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Derek

1. What is your stance on vestigial organs? Many scientists claim that through evolution some organs have lost their purpose but a lot of fundamentalists would say these organs still have uses and thus are not vestigial (such as someone without tonsils is 4 times more likely to contract disease even though doctors deem it perfectly safe to remove them). I have no idea. I cannot remember this topic ever coming up at the Catholic church or in any conversation I have had before.

2. Through quantum physics, there's been massive support that particles can form out of nothing, somewhat showing that the universe could be uncaused. What do you think about this? YES. The universe will be destroyed one day and not just because I read it in revelations. Scientists prove this fact everyday.

3. Do you believe that a higher entity indeed created us entirely or rather that an entity planted the seeds for our growth and we simply evolved over time? Or is it that your religion is simply a spiritual quest and does not conform to the views of a Christian God? God created science therefore he created the actions of the physical world to cause human life. Big Bang YES.

4. God is often depicted in a human form, explained by people's needs to make God relatable to them. Do you think this is right or is the idea of 'god' simply a force outwith our comprehension? It is taught that human's were formed in God's image. I do not think we were formed in his physical image. He made us in a more intangible image. He made us different in a way than the other animals in our mind. He gave us logic. I have NEVER viewed god in the image of a human. He is a force.


Coming from a non-religious background, I'm interested in gaining some perspective that's not simply a teacher talking as you could understand. This thread isn't to denounce either religion or science, but rather to observe each other's views, remember.

I absolutly hate it when ppl feel they need to only be on one side of the fence. You can believe in God and Science. Any christian that still denies evolution is just ignorant. God used these tools of creation. These tools of science that we also use. Believing otherwise as a christian is pretty much believing that God is an idiot.

Nice thread. Very thought provoking questions

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by hevusa

In general this is true about Christians. Most "believers" are dipshit stupid because they have never had to question a damn thing. And when they do they just discredit anything that doesn't fit into their lie about God. Which leads to MORE dipshit stupid shit like people wanting abortion and gay marriage illegal, women's equality oppressed, the prohibition of marijuana (even though believers think God created it), and stupid liquor laws that don't make sense. And that is just the tip of the iceberg...

You've met alot of "bad" examples. Those ppl are just sheep. A TRUE christian is accepting, logical and thinks more open mindedly.

You think believers don't question things?????????? That is the hardest part of being faithful. That "what if" that creeps into the back of yr head from time to time. Constant daily exposure to a world filled with Extreme disdain for christianity and ppl like you trying to convince us we are stupid for having something to believe in. You are a sad soul hevusa. You are like the ppl you are calling dipshits because you refuse to even take a look at the other view and make a valid KNOWLEDGEABLE opinon on it. I have lived both ways I have looked at both sides. I like this one best and here I will stay, but I will not shove it down the throat of others. Don't you understand that in the christian belief it is ALL about the BELIEF? God does not want himself FORCED on others he only wants us to come to him on our own accord.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Derek

Is there anyway I can delete this thread so hevusa can't argue anymore?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Derek again.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i haven't read teh thread, i just wanted to express my disappointment of how in (at least) american english, "christian" has come to mean anti-intellectual anti-science bible thumper inbred yahoo fanatic dipshit.

i grew up as a christian of the catholic variety, and there was no congenital imbecility implied in said word. the jesuits were actually pretty fucking smart, and theology as advanced by scholars, not televangelists.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! I am so tired of being treated like I am some ignorant backwoods hillbilly just because of my faith. I have more liberal views than I do conservative yet cannot be pegged into either group because both reject my views they don't like.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

God used these tools of creation.

So now you know what God did/does too?

Thanks for providing a PERFECT example of why belief is dangerous. And with perfect timing.