[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Derek

Also a timebomb? Could you get anymore cliché?

A time bomb, created just to TORTURE PEOPLE'S PSYCHES! I actually thought that part was pretty damn well played. It's got roots somewhere in hypothetical philosophy that i am too drunk to remmber right at the moment, but the "cliche" idea never once crossed my mind, as a viewer.

Hate Bane?! He was almost as charming as the Joker!!!!!!! That voice... I can't blieve ppl were worried it would be stupid or irritating. It was ominous as all hell. Darth Vader times a billion.

I',m seriously a quited loopy.

[Starcat]

I hated him because I hated his character. His acting and image were great, but he was totally an evil asshole. Creating this revolution only to blow everyone up, claiming to be speaking on behalf of the people while silencing everyone who disagreed with him... I hate him for all of the same reasons that I hate the French Revolution: a connection that was well made in the movie and well recognized on this thread.

[Dude McDude]

Originally Posted by Starcat

I hate the French Revolution

Because you had to give up your vast collection of mansions and castles?

[Dude McDude]

I agree that there were cliches, but if you can't look beyond them you're probably bound to be disappointed by a batman movie.

Anyone who expects avant garde film making from batman really has the wrong expectations. Having said that there were actually quiet a lot of new angles for an action movie, as cheesy as they might have come across.

It seems to me that if you're complaining about clichés on one hand, and then complain some more about cheesy attempts at adding depth on the other hand, you probably had your mind set on finding errors to begin with. Way to make yourself disappointed.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Derek

But Nolan presented the movie as something more than just a fun superhero movie.

you're right, of course. nolan is a dark motherfucker, and "memento" is his defining work. with him it's all about atrocity and revenge.

however, don't come to batman looking for deep philosophy or the meaning of life. it's just not there! the fact that it takes itself seriously doesn't mean it is really serious.

Originally Posted by Derek

It's not 'fun' at all, it's extremely drawn out with a very serious tone. I don't think critical analysis is moot because it's a superhero movie.

fine, i'll play, but on my own terms.

things i found ridiculous:

- the police, for fucks sakes, don't know better than to lead a straight charge right into the mouths of fortified machine guns? i mean, how the fuck old are they, and don't they have any sense of tactics or strategy? for fucks sakes. where the fuck is the SWAT team.

- and then batman shows up in his supervesselwarmacheen, blows up the tanks, and he can't take 5 more seconds to blow up the barricades where the cops are charging into? fucking 1 percenter in his chariot cares little for the hoi polloi!

- timing the exact moment 5 months hence when an unstable nuclear reaction will reach critical mass and create an explosion? i laugh, good sir. it should have been more like a russian roulette.

- what the fuck is a "league of shadows"? srsly.

having said all that, i couldn't care much about this ridiculousness because i was too busy looking out for cat lady's fabulous legs.

additionally:

- bane: sometimes all i could hear him say was "thop thop thop thop thop" . this didn't bother me because it was hilarious.

now on the subject of "nolan doesn't know about camera angles" i'll reply "what the fuck are you talking about???" kindly provide a concrete example of a fuckup and we can discuss, otherwise it's just silliness. screen-cap maybe?

and i thought the editing was great, the problem wasn't the editing, it was that they were trying to cram too much story + backstory in the 2nd half of the movie. so i can't even remember how the fuck is it that they killed all the prisoners and the prisoners are still there. and why was the doctor left in the hole after the dad came to rescue? wasn't he supposed to be a friend? anyway, too rushed to really take it all in, but that's not "editing", that's writing. if anything i think the editing did a great job of presenting all that excess material.

[Starcat]

Originally Posted by Murmer99

He's necessary evil..

He would have said so, but he was wrong for the same reasons that Ra's Al Ghul was wrong in the first movie: Batman was already saving Gotham. In fact by the time Bane and the daughter showed up, Gotham was doing pretty swell. So all they were really doing was avenging Ra's Al Ghul and fulfilling his legacy or whatever.

Originally Posted by Dude McDude

Because you had to give up your vast collection of mansions and castles?

No, because it was an absolutely terrible revolution that killed a stupid amount of people and accomplished very little social change short of total chaos


And just because it's a Batman movie is no excuse for bad writing and plot ridiculousness... Nolan knows how to make plot-tight, well-written movies. Memento was a plot-tight, well-written movie. Dark Knight was a plot-tight, well-written movie. We had every reason to have high expectations

[Dude McDude]

Originally Posted by Starcat

it was an absolutely terrible revolution that killed a stupid amount of people and accomplished very little social change short of total chaos

Hence the word revolution as opposed to reformation, for instance. My point is that all those things going on were deliberate. As for social change goes, i'm not a historian or particularly interested in politics but as far as i understand the french revolution was in a lot of ways the foundation for the modern government, constitution and political philosophy such as democracy. It seems that your take on it is a critique against those things, but i digress now.

Originally Posted by Starcat

And just because it's a Batman movie is no excuse for bad writing and plot ridiculousness...

I think it is actually. Because to me there seem to be unwritten hollywood law (or maybe it's actually deliberate) that production budget can either go to blowing up expensive stuff and create advanced CGI OR be spent on script, dialogue and story. For some reason you can't seem to get both very often.

Originally Posted by Starcat

Nolan knows how to make plot-tight, well-written movies. Memento was a plot-tight, well-written movie. Dark Knight was a plot-tight, well-written movie.

Dark knight? Really? But not this movie? I would say that they rate about equal in cheesiness.

Originally Posted by Starcat

We had every reason to have high expectations

Fair enough, i just think the problem is the expectations and not the movie. It is what it is. I wouldn't expect ass jokes in a Bergman movie, nor depth and character elaboration in batman movies. I guess our expectations aren't the same.

[h8kurdt]

Well I've just got back from seeing it. It was ok.

My main problem was the prison scenes. It just dragged the whole film to a grinding halt killing any momentum built. However I will say the Bane was just brilliant.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

- bane: sometimes all i could hear him say was "thop thop thop thop thop" . this didn't bother me because it was hilarious.

Thank you, I thought it was just the sound in the cinema I went to. There were large chunks of his dialogue that were almost unintelligible to me. The fact his mouth is covered probably doesn't help.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i was too busy looking out for cat lady's fabulous legs.

I get a warm glow just typing the words Gwyneth Paltrow in Iron Man. Anne's just not in the same league.

[Derek]

I was going to post another long rant about this movie but this article sums it up way more than I ever could:
http://www.sequart.org/magazine/1390...t-rises-fails/

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

however, don't come to batman looking for deep philosophy or the meaning of life. it's just not there! the fact that it takes itself seriously doesn't mean it is really serious.

True, but I'm sure you'd be the first to agree that something can be philosophically interesting without necessarily being philosophically coherent itself. It's a 'rich' film, in that sense, raising lots of interesting questions rather than necessarily trying to address any of them. I can certainly see Marxist critics getting tonnes of mileage out of Bane, say by looking at him in comparison with V, from V for Vendetta.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I get a warm glow just typing the words Gwyneth Paltrow in Iron Man. Anne's just not in the same league.

gwyneth has a very pretty face that rests on some spectacular cheekbones, and with those little freckles it's just lick-worthy, and her character in iron man is truly endearing, BUT: she has a horrible posture and a nearly anorexic body, and lacks anne's glorious bubble butt-- though anne has a bit of a weird face, the weirdness was appropriately played down on this movie.

oh, i'd hate to be an actress and have everyone examine put my looks on trial, but that's what happens when you get in front of a camera. anyway, i just want to say: legs & ass! legs & ass!

Originally Posted by Derek

I was going to post another long rant about this movie but this article sums it up way more than I ever could:
http://www.sequart.org/magazine/1390...t-rises-fails/

i started to read and then got to the part where he talks about the missiles killing civilians, and i remembered i laughed at this when i was in the movie.

soon after however i realized i really don't give enough of a shit about this movie to read a whole fucking catalog about it. and i stopped.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Murmer99

League of Shadows was introduced in Batman Begins, a group of "killers" led by Ra's Al Ghul. Their mission basically is to destroy Gotham City to put it out of its misery or whatever. Bane was revealed to be a part of this, and wanted to fulfill "Ra's Al Ghul's destiny". I guess it helps to be familiar with the preceding films, but I'm not sure if it's really mandatory in order to enjoy it.

yeah i know, everybody knows that, my point is that 1) it's a preposterous name, 2) their fucking mission made no sense

Originally Posted by demonrail666

True, but I'm sure you'd be the first to agree that something can be philosophically interesting without necessarily being philosophically coherent itself. It's a 'rich' film, in that sense, raising lots of interesting questions rather than necessarily trying to address any of them. I can certainly see Marxist critics getting tonnes of mileage out of Bane, say by looking at him in comparison with V, from V for Vendetta.

well, in that case (ha ha) avengers wins that battle with one simple line:

"that's my secret, captain: i'm always angry"

that blows the socks off anything the batman sez.

i get what you're saying though, it's just that this is not ulysses/ memento/ a charlie kaufmann movie.

[ann ashtray]

I thought the film was fantastic and feel it serves as a great finale to this great trilogy. I liked the slight reference to Killer Croc. I liked seeing Batman get his ass absolutely handed to him, leading him to depend on the help of a city that once so strongly depended on him even if it didn't always realize how much so. I felt it was intense. Seeing him get punched in the face and his cowl crushed beneath Bane's fist...just shortly before his back is snapped over Banes Knee. I liked the fact that Robin's role was ultimately minimal, and that we don't know for sure whether or not the Caped Crusader lives or died (personally, I take both stances depending on who I'm talking to. Most of the time I just choose to believe he dies, however).

Only qualm:

Many feel as if the film was too long. I feel, if anything, it wasn't long enough. Certain aspects felt a bit rushed, but I understand why. I like to believe there will be a deluxe edition of this film that is longer.

[ann ashtray]

As far as flaws...

IT'S A FUCKING MOVIE! Tearing it apart and pointing out every little inadequacy just demonstrates, to me, some folks need to get a life. This can be done with virtually every movie ever made...ESPECIALLY the good ones. Watched Blade Runner lately? haha

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Killer Croc

how so? i don't know if you watched batman: the animated series but there was an episode with some weird dude who had kids working for him in the sewers, definitly thought of that when i saw how they were using the sewers in the movie.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble

how so? i don't know if you watched batman: the animated series but there was an episode with some weird dude who had kids working for him in the sewers, definitly thought of that when i saw how they were using the sewers in the movie.

There was a joke made about crocodiles living in the sewers. Obviously wasn't intended to specifically mean Killer Croc, but was an allure no doubt.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

As far as flaws...

IT'S A FUCKING MOVIE! Tearing it apart and pointing out every little inadequacy just demonstrates, to me, some folks need to get a life. This can be done with virtually every movie ever made...ESPECIALLY the good ones. Watched Blade Runner lately? haha

You're so fucking retarded. Like seriously, read what you just wrote again.

Hey I guess I can't listen to a record and say "I don't like the vocalist" because IT'S JUST MUSIC and clearly I need to get a life for feeling a certain way!

This movie is more than 'little' inadequacies which is why I didn't ENJOY it. It's a huge mess in most areas and the 'little' inadequacies really prevent it from being great.

Then again, "it's just a movie, why criticize it" is the mindset of every dull drone with bland taste. Clearly we shouldn't challenge anything ever and accept complacency with everything! Seriously, you're a moron.

Tearing apart art helps hinder people from making mediocre works. If you really think people who analyse music, movies, books etc. need a life then I don't know what to tell you, I guess your simple-minded redneck roots are shining through.

Also, this is a fucking discussion board. What the hell do you expect?

I don't want a large retort back or anything. You're wrong, so just admit that you are wrong.

[SpaceCadetHayden]

i was bored by this movie and thought it moved too slow thank you

[Genteel Death]

Can you give me 10 reasons why I should go to watch it and 10 reasons why I shouldn't? I'm only asking because I have a hefty amount of movies to watch in the next few weeks and this one seems like the sort that can wait for much longer, even though I am partial to Batman as a superhero.