[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I think Body/Head doesn't have nearly as many expectations as people have for Thurston or Lee projects, so when it is delightful people are even happier about this, where as if Thurston or Lee put out something even just so-so, it is more so a let down considering the expectations or the potential..

[SonicBebs]

I am quite nervous about Lee's new one

hope it isn't shit

[Genteel Death]

I've always been fine with the aspect of SY being artists and regular people who made fantastic music but I have a problem with LR and TM's officially promoted output because it sounds so regular and uninspiring, the sort I expect aging rock stars to produce. Of course they have their many side projects which are noisier, wilder, experimental etc, but I don't like most of them and I think the prolific discographies they produce are neatly detached from the impression of themselves as artists they want to give to potential new converts on their official releases. It just all sound and seem so commercial and money-oriented. Well done to Kim for doing something more enjoyable (for me) in her post SY-days.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I agree mostly with what Genteel Death just posted. Since about the mid-2000s, the Lee and Thurston solo projects seem like they are putting out records for the sake of putting out records, not necessarily inspired or authentic productions for the sake of art. Sonic Youth always felt like the absolute best art these artists could produce, and its understandable, much like a Championship basketball team, its the chemistry of different artists coming together that produces greatness, not individual talent. Individual talent is nothing without a vehicle and outlet to build, create, and evolve. Sonic Youth as a band is fantastic, its component parts on their own only have glimpses of creative greatness.

However, I don't think its just crassly commercial, I think there is some sincerity even if it doesn't translate into great records. While I don't really listen to a lot of the solo projects, I definitely applaud them. I like bands and musicians who are flexible, who make music in all kinds of different projects. I like to listen to bands, whose internal members introduce you to several different bands that they are also in as side-projects. Its like fractal geometry in music. However, with Sonic Youth, the fractals aren't as great as the whole.

[Genteel Death]

I think you can have a very commercial attitude to music and still produce great records, even if you're a rock band. It just seems impossible to me with Sonic Youth and their background as a band, that's all.

[Mortte Jousimo]

If you´re comparing that "let´s make another packet of boring music that doesn´t cause any distress to anybody, just makes them feel comfortable" -music, that most music is today & Ranaldo´s & Thurston´s output, I think R & T material is very far away from that. I don´t believe they have any commercial orientation in their doings, they have just become old & little bit serene.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I agree mostly with what Genteel Death just posted. Since about the mid-2000s, the Lee and Thurston solo projects seem like they are putting out records for the sake of putting out records, not necessarily inspired or authentic productions for the sake of art.

I don´t quite understand what you mean. Here are both men´s solo discographies from wikipedia:

• From Here to Infinity (1987)
• Scriptures of the Golden Eternity (1993) (Recorded 1988-1989)
• Dirty Windows (1998) (Recorded 1991-95)
• Amarillo Ramp (For Robert Smithson) (2000) (Recorded 1990-95)
• Outside My Window The City Is Never Silent - A Bestiary (2002) (Recorded 1991-95)
• Music For Stage And Screen (2004)
• Ambient Loop For Vancouver (2006)
• Maelstrom From Drift (2008)
• Between the Times and the Tides (Matador Records, 2012)

• Psychic Hearts (1995, Geffen Records)
• Trees Outside the Academy (2007, Ecstatic Peace)
• Demolished Thoughts (2011, Matador Records) (UK chart peak: #119)[16]

As you can see, they really haven´t release record every year. Yes, I know they have lots of other projects, but still I don´t believe they release anything just for the reason to release something.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I think you can have a very commercial attitude to music and still produce great records, even if you're a rock band. It just seems impossible to me with Sonic Youth and their background as a band, that's all.

I think this is nothing but a lie from you. I haven´t ever seen you saying any mainstream record great (Well, ok, in Who-thread you said you´re mod & in the latest Stooges album thread you said three first Stooges-albums are great, I think you have to have a little fight with yourself before you put even these comments). I could believe you will like also some mainstream artists, but you seem to have very stupid reasons not to say anything about them here.

Besides I don´t believe you´ve heard Glacial or Moore/Connors-albums.

[Genteel Death]

I didn't even know that Thurston made a record with Sinead O'Connor. How mainstream, crass and commercial is that?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

but still I don´t believe they release anything just for the reason to release something.[/size]

Its not an increase in volume, its a decline in musical substance.

[Rob Instigator]

everyone gets soft as they age. They also stop feeling such intense emotions as they did when young, which then translates into music that is more placid, more languid, and more BORING.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone gets soft as they age. They also stop feeling such intense emotions as they did when young, which then translates into music that is more placid, more languid, and more BORING.

I don't find TM or LR's music languid or placid, I just find it boring now.

[tesla69]

anyone see the gig in chicago last night, with the tom carter/gate collaboration in addition to body/head?

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I don't find TM or LR's music languid or placid, I just find it boring now.

You do not find Trees Outside The Academy languid?

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

You do not find Trees Outside The Academy languid?

I do but languid doesn't have to be boring so I edited my previous post. Boredom is what I feel when I listen to that record.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone gets soft as they age. They also stop feeling such intense emotions as they did when young, which then translates into music that is more placid, more languid, and more BORING.

You´re really a fan of stereotypes. How you then explain that Tom Waits has made his greatest records after getting in some age & still makes great records? If someone says his latest record placid, more lanquid & boring, I think he should go to the eartest. I know you don´t like Nick Cave, but he´s latest album is also one of the greatest albums of the year and he was like a animal in a gig. Also Dr. John´s latest album is really close he´s four first albums.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Its not an increase in volume, its a decline in musical substance.

So you have listened all records from Moore & Ranaldo? Like Genteel, I don´t believe you also haven´t even listened Glacial or Moore/Connors-albums, that I find as great as Body/Head-album. I also like a lot Psychic Hearts, Trees Outside, Demolished, Between the times, CLM & those Thurston improvisation records I have, although I don´t think they´re as great as those three first I mentioned and not as great as SY-albums.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

You´re really a fan of stereotypes. How you then explain that Tom Waits has made his greatest records after getting in some age & still makes great records? If someone says his latest record placid, more lanquid & boring, I think he should go to the eartest. I know you don´t like Nick Cave, but he´s latest album is also one of the greatest albums of the year and he was like a animal in a gig. Also Dr. John´s latest album is really close he´s four first albums.

I have always found Tom Waits boring as fuck. he also did not have a huge early career in aggressive punk and rawk music. apples and oranges. Same with Dr. John.

I am talking more about bands and musicians who made their name with aggressive rock n roll and then proceed in their later years to create standard, boring songs.

Neil Young is ancient for a rocker and still rocks mad-ass. He was always a folkie to start with though so his folk records later on are a continuation of what he has always done.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I have always found Tom Waits boring as fuck. he also did not have a huge early career in aggressive punk and rawk music. apples and oranges. Same with Dr. John.

I am talking more about bands and musicians who made their name with aggressive rock n roll and then proceed in their later years to create standard, boring songs.

Neil Young is ancient for a rocker and still rocks mad-ass. He was always a folkie to start with though so his folk records later on are a continuation of what he has always done.

So you need to be more exact what you´re writing. If you have written "every punk rocker..." I think I`ve understood better. But there is also exceptions in this, just listen (I think they´re over fifty when made this):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AXYMHd3yBQ

And by the way, in my opinion Tom Waits has much more punk attitude than many "so called" punk-rockers (for example Green Day & Offspring). I haven´t heard any great new young punk bands over twenty years.

[Rob Instigator]

I respect and admire Waits and his career and his whole thing, but I do not enjoy his music.