[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Lando put your stunna shadez on yo

 

[!@#$%!]

oh, poor atlético, 30 minutes to go and out of substitutes!

it was their advantage to drop, they fell back too much and had no counterattack options for the last 20 or so minutes. you can't do that.

things are gonna get really exciting now though!

[!@#$%!]

fucking late-game massacre!

[demonrail666]

Yeah, I'd have loved Athletico to have done it but they seemed knackered. Marcelo changed the game.

[!@#$%!]

re: donovan

isn't he fat and out of shape and didn't he say he had a problem training hard? he can now relax and spend time with his family and travel.

klinsmann isn't the best coach in the world by a million miles (ancelotti probably is right now, but he lives in a different dimension). however, even as a second-rate coach, he has every right to cut off the old fat & flaky landycakes--even if it's ultimately for personal reasons, they don't get along, whatever. a team has to operate as a whole.

donovan or no donovan, the usmnt is doomed this world cup-- put up a good honorable fight, be happy you're in the concacaf cuz you would't qualify elsewhere, and enjoy the experience. in those circumstances klinsmann is probably okay looking at developing talent for 2018 anyway when hopefully a new and better generation of players will take over.

here's some of their interpersonal back story, for those interested:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/...d_america.html

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

We had a chance, Landon was not out of shape, Klinsmann made a huge mistake even if just from a PR perspective. There is no way in any universe were all 30 players selected better than Landon Donovan, even if he was out of shape (which he wasn't). Could have at the least included Donovan for fanfare and as a spark off the bench. Speaking of underrated 32 year old players, D-Wade exploded AGAIN tonight.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

re: donovan

isn't he fat and out of shape and didn't he say he had a problem training hard? he can now relax and spend time with his family and travel.

klinsmann isn't the best coach in the world by a million miles (ancelotti probably is right now, but he lives in a different dimension). however, even as a second-rate coach, he has every right to cut off the old fat & flaky landycakes--even if it's ultimately for personal reasons, they don't get along, whatever. a team has to operate as a whole.

donovan or no donovan, the usmnt is doomed this world cup-- put up a good honorable fight, be happy you're in the concacaf cuz you would't qualify elsewhere, and enjoy the experience. in those circumstances klinsmann is probably okay looking at developing talent for 2018 anyway when hopefully a new and better generation of players will take over.

here's some of their interpersonal back story, for those interested:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/...d_america.html

I'd read similar things about Donovan having time off. I sympathise with him in terms of the reasons behind it but it did put Klinsmann in a spot when he wanted to return and I understand why he dropped him, even though in this instance I think he was wrong. He should be thinking one tournament at a time and fielding the best players he has for each (which at this time would still include Donovan).

We have similar debates here. "Play the kids"; "build something for 2018", etc. But with a tournament that comes only every 4 years and no crystal ball to tell us who'll be in form or injured by then you can realistically only deal with what you have now. And 32 isn't that old by today's standards. Xavi, Gerrard and Pirlo are all older than that and still going. Not putting Donovan in their bracket quality-wise but a coach has to pick from what's available and given what's available to Klinsmann in terms of quality, Donovan's still a viable pick imo - even if it's just as a squad member (as with Xavi). Klinsmann says he's going on form rather than reputation, fine, but is that really represented by taking a player like Julian Green. He may be in the Bayern squad, which obviously gets lots of approving ticks from Klinsmann, but someone needs to remind Jurgen that so far he hasn't made a single appearance for their first team.

The problem with the decision for me is that the more you look at it, the more it seems to have nothing to do with football and everything to do with Klinsmann asserting his authority at a time when he really didn't need to, or could afford it. In a country overloaded with talent, maybe, but the US doesn't have that luxury. This seems too personal.

But as you say, whatever the decision, it won't make much difference to the US's realistic chances. With or without Donovan I don't think they'll qualify out of the group stages. But this'ill give the media and fans unnecessary fuel to attack Klinsmann when things do go tits up.

[!@#$%!]

i think in the end for him it's all about making up a squad of players who have determination, commitment, hunger, etc.--and as national technical director (not just manager of the main team) he's in charge of the youth teams, player development, etc. ---so i see this as him trying to change the work ethic--- it's not enough to go play in europe but you have to be in the top teams there, play every chance you can, etc. he took donovan to bayern and donovan disappointed in 2009; he wasn't happy when dempsey returned from the prem to become a seattle sounder, etc. ect.. so in making an example of donovan he's broken an egg to make an omelet. i say let him. us "soccer" has much bigger problems than missing ladycakes-- the first one is being called "soccer" and then there's all kinds of other things like a lack of decent youth teams, a shitty league, "drafts", "playoffs" and other cack that makes the game not serious here. imagine cr7 going on a 4 month sabbatical in the middle of the season!

here's an interesting article that talks about somewhat of an overall strategy for his changes. and yes it also notes big differences between the u.s. and germany, but still...

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2014/05/2...-germany-2006/

[demonrail666]

It's not cut and dried. I can understand the reasons for it and defences of it. I just think a World Cup is the wrong time for a manager to try and make a point. Donovan was key to your qualification and should at least be a squad option, not for sentimental reasons but because even at 80% he's still one of the best players you have. To roughly quote that article, if the USMT squad is uniformly better than Donovan, the US are serious contenders for the cup. Which obviously isn't the case. If Klinsmann wanted to axe Donovan he should've waited till after the WC.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

It's not cut and dried. I can understand the reasons for it and defences of it. I just think a World Cup is the wrong time for a manager to try and make a point. Donovan was key to your qualification and should at least be a squad option, not for sentimental reasons but because even at 80% he's still one of the best players you have. To roughly quote that article, if the USMT squad is uniformly better than Donovan, the US are serious contenders for the cup. Which obviously isn't the case. If Klinsmann wanted to axe Donovan he shouldn't waited till after the WC.

problem is he's gone downhill since qualification. he's supposedly battling injury and i understand he hasn't scored with LA galaxy all season (i don't really follow but that's what i read). bruce arena came out in support of him ("if there are 23 players better…") because he's his coach. i know it's not cut and dried and i can see both sides of it, but that's exactly my point, there are 2 sides, which is why i made sure to bring up this side to the discussion, rather than "oh klinsmann how could you."

i also think it's rather tragic that donovan is seen as the greatest american football hero. i mean, he's nobody outside of the MLS. meanwhile, tim howard is everton's GK. hello.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i also think it's rather tragic that donovan is seen as the greatest american football hero. i mean, he's nobody outside of the MLS. meanwhile, tim howard is everton's GK. hello.

That is because you have a flawed perspective about this, you keep comparing Landon to MLS, but he is the greatest American football hero for what he has done on the pitch at the international level, and especially at the tournament level. Is he Ronaldo? Probably not. However, you literally look STUPID to even remotely compare Donovan to Tim Howard just because of where Tim plays. Landon has the USMNT record for career goals, for goals in tournament play, for career assists, and for assists in tournament. How is that NOT an American football hero? Even more, he is the first true American celebrity footballer (and celebrity to Americans, we could care less what you Euro trash "fans" think about it)..

Also, he is a huge part of the growth and progression of the USMNT. You're analysis about USMNT is flawed in that you're ten years behind. Those things you mentioned in your critique are how it USED to be for the USMNT, but over the past 10-15 years all of those valid issues have begun to be addressed and improved. I think over the past 12 years USMNT has held its own with all of the best teams in the world. Are we better than them? NO. Not a chance. Can we hang, compete, and even steal a game or two? Duh, the improved results in our win record speaks for itself. In other word, stop being a football snob/ hater..

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

That is because you have a flawed perspective about this, you keep comparing Landon to MLS, but he is the greatest American football hero for what he has done on the pitch at the international level, and especially at the tournament level. Is he Ronaldo? Probably not. However, you literally look STUPID to even remotely compare Donovan to Tim Howard just because of where Tim plays. Landon has the USMNT record for career goals, for goals in tournament play, for career assists, and for assists in tournament. How is that NOT an American football hero? Even more, he is the first true American celebrity footballer (and celebrity to Americans, we could care less what you Euro trash "fans" think about it)..

tim howard is a real professional who plays at the highest levels of the sport.

ladycakes is a celebrity in his own backyard.

coming home to find your dog wagging its tail is not a sign that you're world-famous.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Also, he is a huge part of the growth and progression of the USMNT. You're analysis about USMNT is flawed in that you're ten years behind. Those things you mentioned in your critique are how it USED to be for the USMNT, but over the past 10-15 years all of those valid issues have begun to be addressed and improved. I think over the past 12 years USMNT has held its own with all of the best teams in the world. Are we better than them? NO. Not a chance. Can we hang, compete, and even steal a game or two? Duh, the improved results in our win record speaks for itself. In other word, stop being a football snob/ hater..

i'm analysis?

winning over algeria is no great feat. winning friendlies over the b-team of a great power is no great feat. beating a mexico in shambles is no great feat.

only reason the us qualifies for the world cup is because of concacaf. same as iran, in whatever fuck confederation they are.

i wish the us had been invited to the copa américa in 2015, but instead mexico and jamaica are going. a pity, because we need to stop being kramer in the dojo and start getting real opponents on a regular basis.

 

el salvador? honduras? costa rica? seriously? the us needs better rivals. i'm not talking about brazil or argentina or uruguay on a good day (though uruguay was uneven in the qualifiers). try playing colombia, or chile, or ecuador, for real stakes, and see what happens.

the usmnt is switching from being a kick-and-run team under poor bradley to embracing actual modern tactics which take professionalism and dedication and physical form across the board. klinsmann obviously understands that. if he spilled a little celebrity blood to make way for the future and this drives some silly myopic "fans" to hissy fits, then so be it--hiss on.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

tim howard is a real professional that plays at the highest levels of the sport.

Not taking that away, but if you haven't noticed, Landon scored or assisted on the overwhelming majority of the goals, and to be honest, I've seen Tim give up some easy ones trying to play Superman. Also, they don't play the same position, so in regards to the roster, its not an either or scenario.

ladycakes is a celebrity in his own backyard.

Yes, but duh, that is kind of how it works? Further, if its the national team, why not play the national celebrity?

only reason the us qualifies for the world cup is because of concacaf. same as iran, in whatever fuck confederation they are.

Keep shitting on our parade, it only makes you more the hater. Qualifying speaks for itself, regardless of your opinion. Also, we're realistic, we understand that we're not a top-20 in the world team, and we respect that we have work to do, but folks also have to respect that we've come a long way in the right direction.

i wish the us had been invited to the copa américa in 2015, but instead mexico and jamaica are going. a pity, because we need to stop being kramer in the dojo and start getting real opponents on a regular basis. el salvador? honduras? costa rica? i'm not talking about brazil or argentina or uruguay on a good day (though they've been uneven). try playing colombia, or chile, or ecuador, for real stakes, and see what happens.

Sighs. Whatever you say, but nobody is trying to pretend USMNT is bigger than what it is, but you got to stop thinking its smaller than it is too.

the usmnt is switching from being a kick-and-run team under poor bradley to embracing actual modern tactics which take professionalism and dedication and physical form across the board. klinsmann obviously understands that. if he spilled a little celebrity blood to make way for the future and this drives some silly myopic "fans" to hissy fits, then so be it.

I like the development, its not just Klinsmann but its been a big part in the shift in style of play. I've mentioned that before several times on this thread over the past 3 years BUT everybody but you has agreed that Jurgen made a huge mistake and that it was a personal quarrel, not a matter of football skill or talent. That is the shame of it. The guy got dissed out of a 4th WC appearance, simple as that. Also liked your little "fan" comment, keep enjoying bandwagoning all that Eurotrash you follow, makes you such diehard expert and all

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

"fan"

well you obviously know a lot more about basketball

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

That's true.

Now that we got that trash talk out of the way, you're right, USMNT has A LOT of work to do, but even you've noticed the progress. I think that you are definitely more involved in football but I think you're always underestimating both USA and CONCACAF in general. I get it, in the NBA i often overlook, underestimate, or otherwise shit on a lot of teams and players from small market, fringe teams. However, every once in a while those dudes give my expectations a punch in the mouth.

[guest]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

only reason the us qualifies for the world cup is because of concacaf. same as iran, in whatever fuck confederation they are.

please, don't slant the asian cup. that's some high quality competition.

it's really entertaining holding out for the world cup here, because over the last couple of years interest has waned to the point where it's only a select few looking forward to it. the 'socceroos' (every time I type that part of my brain falls away) have declined so drastically in quality that it's verging on hilarious, especially when taking into consideration how shit they were even back in 06. the unreasonable, inexplicable fan pandemonium has obviously died down now upon the realisation that tim cahill sucks balls and the a-league, whose players populate the vast majority of the side, is perhaps the worst in the ENTIRE WORLD. so because of that I'm using the 50% heritage to bandwagon on italy again, and jesus christ am I glad for that. next to the brazilians I've always enjoyed their style of play the most (the serie a being my favourite league in the world) and they always nail it in world cups so BRING IT THE FUCK ON W0000. I was actually planning to go this year, fuck knows what happened to that.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by guest

I'm using the 50% heritage to bandwagon on italy again, and jesus christ am I glad for that. next to the brazilians I've always enjoyed their style of play the most (the serie a being my favourite league in the world) and they always nail it in world cups so BRING IT THE FUCK ON W0000. I was actually planning to go this year, fuck knows what happened to that.

England aside, I'd love Spain to do it, if only cos it'd infuriate all the haters. 93% possession; no goals scored by anyone over 5'5; a laughing Del Bosque. Love it.

 

[h8kurdt]

As we all (should) know, possesion is pathetically overrated.

[demonrail666]

Not in a court of law

[!@#$%!]

it's 9/10 of the law!

anyway, here some WC predictions from michael cox

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...entina-germany

--

not that i think they will win (i think brazil probably will) but im looking forward to seeing belgium play. so many great individual players scattered around the world and i think i've never seen them play together (we don't get the european qualifiers here).