[knox]

It shouldn't be important what you think about ME, if you like how I sound, if my methods are pleasing to anybody or what I do in my personal life. It shouldn't matter at all because it isn't about ME.

And like I said previously many times, if you're an asshole to me, I'm an asshole back.
That's my right to fight back.

And I also said I'm pretty fucking derranged, so I'm not sure why some feel the need to repeat it as if everybody doesn't know.

None of that makes my points less valid.

However, paying more attention to HOW something's being said than to WHAT is being said is a cop-out. It's simply an excuse.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by knox

It shouldn't be important what you think about ME, if you like how I sound, if my methods are pleasing to anybody or what I do in my personal life. It shouldn't matter at all because it isn't about ME..

you make it all about you though, is the problem

Originally Posted by knox

And like I said previously many times, if you're an asshole to me, I'm an asshole back..

same here! but it also applies when you're an asshole to my friends.

Originally Posted by knox

And I also said I'm pretty fucking derranged, so I'm not sure why some feel the need to repeat it as if everybody doesn't know..

because the deranged part obfuscates your serious/important arguments

Originally Posted by knox

None of that makes my points less valid..

it obfuscates them, to the point of oblivion

Originally Posted by knox

However, paying more attention to HOW something's being said than to WHAT is being said is a cop-out. It's simply an excuse.

no, it's not an excuse when your shots backfire and when you turn people away from a good idea

[!@#$%!]

my computer just told me it's 6pm so i gotta go but i hope everyone gets better, and i don't mean that sarcastically

[knox]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

because the deranged part obfuscates your serious/important arguments

or perhaps it provides you with the perfect excuse?
you already came here attacking me, i react then you get your excuse and your kicks.

i don't have to play the nice, decent, educational personal to anyone who enjoys being an ass.

you're the guy who refused to keep photos of objectified women in one thread, even if there were quite a few girls asking for that and everyone else agreed it'd be a good solution for everyone.
i haven't forgotten that.

so you see, i still have a great memory!

oh, and, by the way, alcoholism is a terrible disease. so even if your stupid remarks about me struggling with alcohol were true, you'd be a jerk just the same.

[knox]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

women are way more clever than men. then why waste yr time on shit like this?

just to piss us off?

someone's intelligence is not determined by gender.

[knox]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

women are way more clever than men. then why waste yr time on shit like this?

just to piss us off?

Please, I said a million times.
This isn't a welcoming environment for women.
They are not posting here.
If it takes getting people pissed off to deal with that, be it.
Nobody would even have to be pissed off if they simply had the common decency to do some self-assessement when someone makes a criticism.

[knox]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

i could say a lot about women and men. black and white or the british....like how much yr food sucks or yr teeth being fucked up or that weird inbreed look you people have because ya'll been fucking each other in the same little strip of land for thousands of fucking years.\


fuck me and women and the british. FUCK YA'LL!!!!!

what? none of that makes any sense.

[Genteel Death]

The odd bits I've read of this thread made me feel guilty about fuck all, btw.

[keep poppin pimples]

as a brainwashed eastern filth i want to thank knox for being such a damn good communist.

she thinks people are more important than advertising and everybody is equal. an attitude of komradery, i'm impressed.

if she ever wants to stop lying about not being red to core i'll buy her some earings that look like hammers

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

 

Finally some closure.

knox, what happened to the closure?

Listen. Nobody here disagrees with any of the 37 separate points you've made on this thread through several thousand words. Alas, you have been arguing with yourself, working up your emotions, and shifting the entire tone of the discussion entirely on your own. Rob made a mistake. You corrected it like 20 pages ago. So why the drag out? Why the discussion of rape or gender bias/discrimination? Your initial point was that Rob's post reflected what you felt as objectification and sexism, I feel you on that for real but check it out, you "simply raised your voice" on that and we heard you. So why all this other Feminine Mystique Revisted tirades?

See, SYG isn't just your blog either, as you said, it is a public space. You are free to share your thoughts on feminism, the situation of women in our society, and the problems they face, and we are all free as men and women to discuss them with you. But your discussion was not a conversation, it was strictly an accusation, and what is worse, entirely unfounded. Rob does post sexist things here, and we have all called him out over the years, as have many of us on many instances of these things. However, Rob is not a rapist, Rob doesn't support the glass ceiling or gender gap or classism in our society. Shit. Stop having a hyperbolic argument with strawmen of your own creations. If you would like to have a calm, intelligent discussion about women's issues, we in the SYG community would definitely love the refreshing chance of pace, but please, don't suddenly make it into some super apocalypse, its not. The majority of people in my life are all women. Trust me, I get you. But you really don't get some of us if you seriously believe half of what you have accused folks of here. Discussing major problems in our society is one thing, wrongly accusing people of being complicit with those evils is another matter entirely :/

[keep poppin pimples]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

what tha fuck and where the fuck are you? you always say 'my country' but never state exactly where your from.

yr also very annoying and full of shit. i just get sick of seeing you logged in but never saying shit until a major thread like this appears.

not showing you my passport or greencard homie, fucc the i.n.s.

[the ikara cult]

It is quite telling how none of you have replied to my point or Glice's point.

If youre so concerned with the "Ideas" being proffered and are SO not just arguing with Knox because she's a girl, why doesnt anyone want to argue the point with someone who also has a dick?

[Nefeli]

whoah..i thought this must have been an old thread.
i havent read it yet.
i can tell what it is about.
i read the first few entries.
my first reaction was that the title 'so many ladies' didnt strike me well. perhaps because it was obvious that it was going to be about sex.
i think that title bothered me more than the 1st post of Rob.

the next thing that i always do it such cases, is that i put myself in the other's shoes. what if i or what do i do when i speak about men like that.
'oh wow, at my gym the analogy of attractive men is astonishing'. am i wrong too? am i being sexist as well? is it more acceptable when women talk like that about men like that? and why.
then all becomes bit blurry, but what is a fact, is that the way women talk about men isnt that degrading. perhaps its our way of expressing, but def society is to blame.

i will read this thread when i have time for this. sorry.

[Nefeli]

if someone had the time:
take the hot girls vs hot men threads and find the % of porn looking pics in both. and how male and females have chosen the pics.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by knox

Yes, darling, the experience of women is foreign to a man.
If you don't admit to that, you're just using your male privilege to deny a fact, create a false equality and shut us up about your own issues.

The Male Privilege Checklist
1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex – even though that might be true. (More).
3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.
5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. (More).
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).
8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I’ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I’m even marginally competent. (More).
12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.
15. When I ask to see “the person in charge,” odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. (More).
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children’s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists were (and are) the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often. (More).
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.
21. If I’m careless with my financial affairs it won’t be attributed to my sex.
22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a “slut,” nor is there any male counterpart to “slut-bashing.” (More).
25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability. (More).
26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring. (More).
27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time. (More).
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I’ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car. (More).
29. If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called “crime” and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called “domestic violence” or “acquaintance rape,” and is seen as a special interest issue.)
32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. “All men are created equal,” mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name.
35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.
37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we’ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks. (More).
39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.
40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we’ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.
42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. (More). If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do. (More).
43. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. (More).
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to “smile.” (More: 1 2).
45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment. (More.)
45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.
46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

Just in case this got missed in all the excitement.

[Glice]

I like this one too:

Originally Posted by White Privilege Checklist

This list is based on Peggy McIntosh’s article on white privilege. These dynamics are but a few examples of the privilege which white people classes have.
On a daily basis as white person…
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be 'followed or harassed.
5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
6. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
12. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who
constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and
behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
18. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a
person of my race.
19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my
race.
20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and
children's magazines featuring people of my race.
21. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat
tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, out numbered, unheard, held at a distance, or
feared.
22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the
job suspect that I got it because of race.
23. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot
get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or
situation whether it has racial overtones.
26. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less
match my skin.

[Glice]

And this one:

Originally Posted by cis person privilege checklist

Use public restrooms without fear of verbal abuse, physical intimidation, or arrest
Use public facilities such as gym locker rooms and store changing rooms without stares, fear, or anxiety.
Strangers don’t assume they can ask you what your genitals look like and how you have sex.
Your validity as a man/woman/human is not based on how much surgery you’ve had or how well you “pass” as non-transgender.
You have the ability to walk through the world and generally blend-in, not being constantly stared or gawked at, whispered about, pointed at, or laughed at because of your gender expression.
You can access gender exclusive spaces such as the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, Greek Life, or Take Back the Night and not be excluded due to your trans status.
Strangers call you by the name you provide, and don’t ask what your “real name” [birth name] is and then assume that they have a right to call you by that name.
You can reasonably assume that your ability to acquire a job, rent an apartment, or secure a loan will not be denied on the basis of your gender identity/expression.
You have the ability to flirt, engage in courtship, or form a relationship and not fear that your biological status may be cause for rejection or attack, nor will it cause your partner to question their sexual orientation.
If you end up in the emergency room, you do not have to worry that your gender will keep you from receiving appropriate treatment, or that all of your medical issues will be seen as a result of your gender.
Your identity is not considered a mental pathology (“gender identity disorder” in the DSM IV) by the psychological and medical establishments.
You have the ability to not worry about being placed in a sex-segregated detention center, holding facility, jail or prison that is incongruent with your identity.
You have the ability to not be profiled on the street as a sex worker because of your gender expression.
You are not required to undergo an extensive psychological evaluation in order to receive basic medical care.
You do not have to defend you right to be a part of “Queer,” and gays and lesbians will not try to exclude you from “their” equal rights movement because of your gender identity (or any equality movement, including feminist rights).
If you are murdered (or have any crime committed against you), your gender expression will not be used as a justification for your murder (“gay panic”) nor as a reason to coddle the perpetrators.
You can easily find role models and mentors to emulate who share your identity.
Hollywood accurately depicts people of your gender in films and television, and does not solely make your identity the focus of a dramatic storyline, or the punchline for a joke.
Be able to assume that everyone you encounter will understand your identity, and not think you’re confused, misled, or hell-bound when you reveal it to them.
Being able to purchase clothes that match your gender identity without being refused service/mocked by staff or questioned on your genitals.
Being able to purchase shoes that fit your gender expression without having to order them in special sizes or asking someone to custom-make them.
No stranger checking your identification or drivers license will ever insult or glare at you because your name or sex does not match the sex they believed you to be based on your gender expression.
You can reasonably assume that you will not be denied services at a hospital, bank, or other institution because the staff does not believe the gender marker on your ID card to match your gender identity.
Having your gender as an option on a form.
Being able to tick a box on a form without someone disagreeing, and telling you not to lie. Yes, this happens.
Not fearing interactions with police officers due to your gender identity.
Being able to go to places with friends on a whim knowing there will be bathrooms there you can use.
You don’t have to convince your parents of your true gender and/or have to earn your parents’ and siblings’ love and respect all over again.
You don’t have to remind your extended family over and over to use proper gender pronouns (e.g., after transitioning).
You don’t have to deal with old photographs that did not reflect who you truly are.
Knowing that if you’re dating someone they aren’t just looking to satisfy a curiosity or kink pertaining to your gender identity (e.g., the “novelty” of having sex with a trans- person).
Being able to pretend that anatomy and gender are irrevocably entwined when having the “boy parts and girl parts” talk with children, instead of explaining the actual complexity of the issue (one “how-to” in the comments below).

[Glice]

Oh, Schroedinger's rapist! That's a great one:

http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/gu...t-being-maced/

Note the full link reads 'a guy's guide to approaching a stranger without being maced'. Sadly, the maced bit doesn't happen often enough.

[Glice]

And I was thinking last night - have you noticed that there's two subjects which have got knox angry on this forum? Anything to do with feminism and gun control. That's because they're important, and they're both dealt with (by and large) in a fairly off-hand, dismissive way here.

[Glice]

 

Here's a graphic. A horrible, horrible graphic.