[Severian]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I already answered Rebecca about my musical relationship to Dylan, but if you aren´t read or understand it here´s another reply. Of course I have seen Dylan´s Freewheelin already in the eighties in the shops in Finland and read about it´s importance to the popular music (also other Dylan´s albums). I don´t remember was it in my home villages library (It´s possible it was, there were many great rock classics like Led Zeppelin I, Dark Side Of the Moon etc.) I think it was his nasal voice I didn´t like at all, so one my friend recommend me Desire (because he´s singing better in it). Now he´s voice sounds really great to me, I think he can express so much in it.

It´s just I haven´t been interested in music that I don´t interest at the moment, not even GOD himself would have made it (well maybe even I in that case have so much curiosity that I have to listen it).

About that book you so many have recommend me, it seems it hasn´t translated to Finnish. I am very slow reader also in Finnish, so it will takes at least a year to read a book in English. BTW I am now reading first time in my life Kerouc On the road, the original version (maybe it´s the next thing you can wonder), after that I am going to read second time Burroughs Naked Lunch (read it I think almost twenty years ago).

I love On The Road. Love it. Read it at the perfect age. Changed me.

But in all honesty, it's defies just about every literary rule in the book, and the end result is, believe it or not, difficult for a lot of people to get through.

If you can read On the Road, or Naked Lunch, then I'm pretty sure you could read the comparatively simple Our Band Could Be Your Life. Honestly. It's not the least bit challenging. It just tells some stories. Maybe some day give it a shot, and see how it goes. It's a chapter by chapter book, so you could just check out the Sonic Youth chapter, or the Minutemen chapter, and see how you do.

[rebeccagotcursedout]

Originally Posted by Severian

Uhh ... yeah, I think it must be a language thing. Dylan's certainly not Celine Dion, but that's a good thing. His voice has an immediacy and honesty to it that really hits people hard. I have trouble listening to any of his early acoustic songs, because I have a hard time holding it together.

I think it's a bit like Kurt Cobain's singing in that sense. Surely there are a ton of people who think he couldn't sing for shit, and I can see why they might feel that way. But if he grabs you he grabs you hard, and the same is true of Dylan.

Hey, not everyone's lucky enough to be Billy Corgan. Am I right?

you feel that way about Dylan too? he's the only singer I can think of that simultaneously makes me want to burst out crying and feel like I can punch thru a brick wall. yes, there's a toughness there that very few can articulate that way. Kurt was kinda like that but maybe more blissed out and angry. im happy to indulge in some Bob love!!!

ha, billy corgan...'killer in me is the killer in you".... ALDFJDAAHHHFuck youuuu!!! hehe.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by rebeccagotcursedout

you feel that way about Dylan too? he's the only singer I can think of that simultaneously makes me want to burst out crying and feel like I can punch thru a brick wall. .

Neil Young does this for me.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by rebeccagotcursedout

you feel that way about Dylan too? he's the only singer I can think of that simultaneously makes me want to burst out crying and feel like I can punch thru a brick wall. yes, there's a toughness there that very few can articulate that way. Kurt was kinda like that but maybe more blissed out and angry. im happy to indulge in some Bob love!!!

ha, billy corgan...'killer in me is the killer in you".... ALDFJDAAHHHFuck youuuu!!! hehe.

Oh, yeah. You don't wanna put on "Times They are a-Changin" when I'm in the room. I'll get real weird with it. Sing every verse with vigor and gusto, assuming alternating roles of revolutionary zealot and lovesick poet.

My mouth will do that quivery thing that happens when when people are on the verge of balling, and I won't let you enjoy a moment of the song because it's all for me!

Then I'll be sad. And retire to my bedchamber to have a solitary cry over a whiskey glass.

I even cry during the opening credits of Watchmen, one of the worst films ever made? Why? Cuz Dylan and stuff.

It's bloody LIFE music!!

[evollove]

All this made me want to hear Bob's sweeter voice, so I'm currently spinning New Morning, which I haven't heard in maybe 15 years. It's so much better than I remembered. I don't think I hear a bad song. Maybe the younger me wasn't charmed by Bob clearly having fun.

Here's "Sign on the Window," and while I'll never confuse him with Ray Charles, there's nothing wrong with this "soul" vocal performance and so much that's right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKZeyeTeAbE

...Damn, this is a good record. "Day of the Locusts," "Went to see the Gypsy," the charming waltz "Winterlude," other surprises.

And I think it does take age and maturity to see the beauty in lines I once considered trite.

"So happy just to see you smile, underneath the sky of blue, on this new morning, with you."

Hell yeah. I mean, what else is there? It takes guts and genius to pull off a line like this. And Dylan does, therefore...

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Uhh ... yeah, I think it must be a language thing.

there's some neuroscience demonstration that a native speaker hears words first and music second whereas furrners hear music first. it's how the brain gets wired. i mention this often because it explains a lot about how certain great artists are either unexportable or greatly diminished outside their contexts.

for me nirvana was first and foremost about the drums. true story.

same as the police, btw. i couldn't give 2 shits about sting's pointless meowing but stewart copeland hell yeah.

[Rob Instigator]

Nirvana was and is and always will be foremost about the BASS

[Rob Instigator]

Did you see Dylan singing "The Night We Called I A Day" on Letterman?

https://youtu.be/u_djZiswcrQ

[evollove]

I didn't think anyone listened to the words. For me, it usually takes two or three listens before I begin to wonder what all the noise is about.

--

Now Planet Waves. This kind of sucks. Like I remembered. Way to go Bob.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Nirvana was and is and always will be foremost about the BASS

you play the cello so it's probably in a similar range but my favorite rock & jazz instrument is(are?) definitely the drums. nothing else gets me going like the drums.

later on when i discoverd the melvins i realized "so this is where grohl learned from!"

i would love to learn to play the drums but i'm a complete spastic.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

there's some neuroscience demonstration that a native speaker hears words first and music second whereas furrners hear music first. it's how the brain gets wired. i mention this often because it explains a lot about how certain great artists are either unexportable or greatly diminished outside their contexts.

for me nirvana was first and foremost about the drums. true story.

same as the police, btw. i couldn't give 2 shits about sting's pointless meowing but stewart copeland hell yeah.

Very interesting theory! But like Evollove, it´s hard to me hear even Finnish lyrics. I have to have written lyrics with me when I am listening, that´s the only way to me understand them. And always music has been much more important than lyrics to me. Also there has been any language that I can´t listen.

About Dylan´s voice, it´s very funny, but now I love his voice. I think it´s really meditative, last night I finally listened Freewheelin`, even my restless children & their cousins who are spending now some time with us calm down.

About Wipers, Meat Puppets, Saccharine Trust & Black Flag. I really love Wipers & Meat Puppets! Wipers reminds me - SY! Like Cobain and the many others and think they´re also listened it a lot, although they not sounded like them in 1983 when Over the edge is made, but really sounded like them later. Meat Puppets reminds me Dead Moon that came later, at least vocals have something same. I think Meat Puppets have very little to do with hardcore, much more sixties/seventies stuff, but really in a great and genius way. Going to listen these both more!

With Meat Puppets there are mentioned also Gun Club & Violent Femmes. I have loved Gun Club already long time, Violent Femmes was in Finland I think end of eighties or begin of nineties. I listened some years after that gig some of their albums. I remembered them ok, but not great. Does somebody now them some stuff that´s worth of listening?

Saccharine Trust was ok. First I think Surving You, Always is quite boring, really don´t like the vocalists at all, but in the middle of the album there happened something really interesting (they started jazzy/hippy jams). Also really props to them about great Doors cover, first I really have to think what cover this is!

I`ve got the right picture of Black Flag. It´s really not my beef at all. If I want to listen same kind of music, I rather listen Bad Brains or Voivod (I think Voivod do heavish prog lot better than Black Flag trying to do it in Slip it in).

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Severian

I love On The Road. Love it. Read it at the perfect age. Changed me.

But in all honesty, it's defies just about every literary rule in the book, and the end result is, believe it or not, difficult for a lot of people to get through.

If you can read On the Road, or Naked Lunch, then I'm pretty sure you could read the comparatively simple Our Band Could Be Your Life. Honestly. It's not the least bit challenging. It just tells some stories. Maybe some day give it a shot, and see how it goes. It's a chapter by chapter book, so you could just check out the Sonic Youth chapter, or the Minutemen chapter, and see how you do.

Severian, On the Road & Naked Lunch are translated into Finnish! If I tried them English, I think I would have to go to the mental institution But yes, I will watch does our town´s library have that book & try to read at least SY-chapter (really hope they will translate some book about SY)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ha ha ha ha same exact thing here

im a non-native english speaker so he does very little for me

i understand his genius is his poetry or whatever but i'm like -- eh

i like his music much better when someone covers it -- like the rolling stones or cat power or nina simone or hendrix

except for mr tambourine man which is shit in all versions. oh and blowin in the fucking wind which is a catholic church song in spanish (i swear-- i fucking hate it--fucking singing priests ruined it for me)

great songwriter-- let someone else sing

Wait, we feel THE EXACT same way about Dylan?? Ive never been able to sit through Dylan doing his own music yet ive never heard a Dylan cover i didn't like..

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Meat Puppets are gloriously under rated

[ilduclo]

Kinski, good old PNW psychedelic.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

But like Evollove, it´s hard to me hear even Finnish lyrics. I have to have written lyrics with me when I am listening, that´s the only way to me understand them.

If I care enough or I'm curious enough, I'll look up words I don't entirely understand.

But that's because lyrics are important to me. This is why Planet Waves is kind of crappy. The music's fine for the most part, but Bob's words are mostly mediocre and sometimes really bad, which really diminishes the whole thing for me.

I'm guessing lyrics are sort of important for everyone, to some extent. No one has ever put on a Nazi hate rock album for me and said, "Yeah, I know. But ignore the words and just enjoy the catchy tunes." Some lyrics can ruin everything.

[rebeccagotcursedout]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Did you see Dylan singing "The Night We Called I A Day" on Letterman?

https://youtu.be/u_djZiswcrQ

wow!!! this made my day!!!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

there's some neuroscience demonstration that a native speaker hears words first and music second whereas furrners hear music first. it's how the brain gets wired. i mention this often because it explains a lot about how certain great artists are either unexportable or greatly diminished outside their contexts.

for me nirvana was first and foremost about the drums. true story.

same as the police, btw. i couldn't give 2 shits about sting's pointless meowing but stewart copeland hell yeah.

There are a number of studies that demonstrate this and other neuro-linguistic phenomena relating to how your native language shapes the way you process and create information. It's pretty interesting, especially when you get into Chomsky's linguistic theories of culture, and the seemingly innate ability of children born in Zimbabwe to recognize and sounds that a non-native speaker of that language is by even physically capable of producing or hearing.

What does it all mean, Mr. Natural?

 

More relevant, perhaps, to the subject at hand is the cocktail party effect and other studies into language and attention.

It makes sense that a non-native English speaker would be more likely to attend to rhythm, melody, and other universal musical components than to words in a secndary language. Plenty of big fat opportunities for cool research here, if you ask me.

[/nerd]

[Severian]

Originally Posted by rebeccagotcursedout

wow!!! this made my day!!!

Yeah, I saw this last week. Damn good.


Why, I wonder, does David Letterman love the fucking Foo Fighters so much? I can't imagine they're really his favorite band. I can't imagine that he sits around groovin to x-static or watershed while he's hanging out at home.

"Everlong" is such a crap song. The one from the Colour & he Shape era (the last FF album that I actually listened to more than once) was always "My Hero." I still love that song, even though it's alt-radio Rock to the core. It's just a really powerful, kickass song that makes me think of Kurt Cobain, whether that's the point or not.

Video was excellent as well. But Everlong? Boring.

[rebeccagotcursedout]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Saccharine Trust was ok. First I think Surving You, Always is quite boring, really don´t like the vocalists at all, but in the middle of the album there happened something really interesting (they started jazzy/hippy jams). Also really props to them about great Doors cover, first I really have to think what cover this is!

I think they're just ok too. thought you might get a kick out of the more jazzy side to them. they took it a little further than the Minutemen, who had more funky stuff, than jazzy, you know. glad you checked them out.

btw, I listened to the Minutemen for the first time in ages and have to say they're just as good as ever. no-frills rock band that doesn't care if no one is hearing it. truly independent. without a care in the world.